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The Little Typer

mitpress.mit.edu

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Re: The Little Typer

#71

Post by xevb3k »

billsix wrote: post #68
xevb3k wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I grew up, we never ate at a restaurant... just would have been an extravagant expense. My parents probably earned This is in the western world... imagine how many people in the world can’t afford this book. On a global scale... very few people could afford this book (or a 40USD video game). It makes me kind of sad that you’d so casually suggest that this is not the case. Makes me think that perhaps people in th…

there is an extraordinary amount of freely available content online for people who want to learn, improve themselves, and to make more money. To those who cannot afford it, here’s 2.5 years of my side work for free http://billsix.github.io/bug

Of course there is. But that’s neither what you said, nor the topic being discussed.

What you said is more than a select few could afford a $40 book.

The topic being discussed is, the morality of charging so much/piracy.

Good work plugging your github though!

Re: The Little Typer

#72

Post by snpriyanshu »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #11

Sad to say the book isn't on Library Genesis, so you'll have to drop $40 if you want the knowledge. http://libgen.io/search.php?req=little+typer Also Library Genesis is amazing: http://libgen.io/search.php?req=knuth It's everything I dreamed of when I was a kid. I used to spend hours at the local library scouring through crummy "Learn C++ in 24 hours" type books. http://custodians.online/ is worth a read too.

I would recommend you to shop from used book stores like thriftbooks.com. I got the knuth's books for like $30(3 volumes) and many more.

Re: The Little Typer

#73

Post by bjz_ »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #41

I can't tell if my question is off-topic or not, but.. Can anyone recommend a book (or whatever) that introduces the aspects of type theory relevant to a would-be language designer?

I hear that Practical Foundations of Programming Languages by Robert Harper[0] is highly recommended. I have Types and Programming Languages, but found it a little dry to be honest. I do use it as a reference manual in my work though.

[0]: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rwh/pfpl.html

Re: The Little Typer

#74

Post by xevb3k »

billsix wrote: post #57
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way of phrasing that: The book costs as much as work that took dozens of people years to make. Also if you were to somehow poll everyone reading this and ask "Did you buy this book?" you'd get some number, x. But if the book were priced at $5, then $5 y would be much greater than $40 x. I bought a bamboo fineline pencil for $50 the other day. It's a tool that will serve me for at least a year. It's unclear wh…

> Given the choice between stealing knowledge and not stealing knowledge, when you wouldn't have paid for it anyway, where's the harm? As a working adult, time spent reading a book is both more limited and more valuable than $40. If you wouldn't have bought it anyways, why is it worth your time stealing and reading it? Although it was an unpopular opinion at the time, I agree with Metallica's outspoken moral oppositi…

The arguments you make could equally well be applied to libraries.

Libraries “steal” money from authors by making books more freely available, in largely the same way that piracy does.

They also make books available to people who otherwise couldn’t afford them.

Re: The Little Typer

#75

Post by vnorilo »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #65
sriram_malhar wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an author of a book on which I worked incredibly hard, FUCK you. If you want it so bad, buy it. Or wait a few years, buy it used. Or borrow it from a library. Don't fucking steal it. Carpenters and other craftspeople who earn far less than the denizens of Hacker News buy whatever they need to further their business. They don't steal others' tools.

I'd be happy to debate, if you're interested. But in the meantime it appears that the anger is misplaced; direct it at the fact that we have this wonderful tool that destroys class barriers and makes knowledge free to all. You act as if I have $40. Would it surprise you to learn my power was cut off within the last few months? Another point: "Stealing" implies something was lost. The words are still there, even if I…

Ok, so digital scarcity is engineered, not real, because scarcity makes our economic system work. However, I don't think anyone has come up with a viable post-scarcity model. In some cases like mobile apps and steam sales, big discounts can increase volume to the point where the economic equation works. Sadly, I don't think a book on dependent types is really amenable to that scenario.

Re: The Little Typer

#76

Post by sillysaurus3 »

sriram_malhar wrote: post #70
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be happy to debate, if you're interested. But in the meantime it appears that the anger is misplaced; direct it at the fact that we have this wonderful tool that destroys class barriers and makes knowledge free to all. You act as if I have $40. Would it surprise you to learn my power was cut off within the last few months? Another point: "Stealing" implies something was lost. The words are still there, even if I…

My anger isn't misdirected. It is directed exactly at this sentiment of yours: "The words are still there". It is the same whether I came up with a new magic trick, or a song, or a film. Don't fucking steal it because you have this wonderful tool called "copy" that "destroys class barriers". There is plenty of stuff on the internet (mine included) that people have chosen to put up for free; go use those. Or wait 10 y…

People put a lot of energy into programming languages, but they don't expect to get paid anything for it. Why is it different when it comes to publishing a book?

That may sound like a dismissive question, but it's at the crux of our disagreement. If we can resolve that, we might be able to see eye to eye.

Re: The Little Typer

#77

Post by grzm »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #76
sriram_malhar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My anger isn't misdirected. It is directed exactly at this sentiment of yours: "The words are still there". It is the same whether I came up with a new magic trick, or a song, or a film. Don't fucking steal it because you have this wonderful tool called "copy" that "destroys class barriers". There is plenty of stuff on the internet (mine included) that people have chosen to put up for free; go use those. Or wait 10 y…

People put a lot of energy into programming languages, but they don't expect to get paid anything for it. Why is it different when it comes to publishing a book? That may sound like a dismissive question, but it's at the crux of our disagreement. If we can resolve that, we might be able to see eye to eye.

> "People put a lot of energy into programming languages, but they don't expect to get paid anything for it. Why is it different when it comes to publishing a book?"

The difference is what the people who choose to do the work expect to get out of it. There are people who work on programming languages (or software) that have commercial licenses. That's their choice. Choosing to ignore their choice, to subvert the terms on which they choose to offer the fruits of their labor, is wrong.

If you can convince them to offer their work under other terms, great. Until then, respect the terms the authors (of books, languages, and software) have chosen.

Re: The Little Typer

#78

Post by xevb3k »

billsix wrote: post #63
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology destroyed the market, not users of it. I think you could've made the same sort of argument against movies or music before netflix and napster, but here we are, and the markets still seem thirsty for new content.

> I think you could've made the same sort of argument against movies or music before netflix and napster, but here we are, and the markets still seem thirsty for new content. Because reasonable adults are paying for content which they want, directly via movie tickets, indirectly via e.g. Netflix and Spotify.

Libraries, the same arguments apply to libraries. Which by your logic are not morally justified.

Re: The Little Typer

#79

Post by billsix »

xevb3k wrote: post #71
billsix wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is an extraordinary amount of freely available content online for people who want to learn, improve themselves, and to make more money. To those who cannot afford it, here’s 2.5 years of my side work for free http://billsix.github.io/bug

Of course there is. But that’s neither what you said, nor the topic being discussed. What you said is more than a select few could afford a $40 book. The topic being discussed is, the morality of charging so much/piracy. Good work plugging your github though!

More than a select few can afford this book

Re: The Little Typer

#80

Post by billsix »

xevb3k wrote: post #74
billsix wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given the choice between stealing knowledge and not stealing knowledge, when you wouldn't have paid for it anyway, where's the harm? As a working adult, time spent reading a book is both more limited and more valuable than $40. If you wouldn't have bought it anyways, why is it worth your time stealing and reading it? Although it was an unpopular opinion at the time, I agree with Metallica's outspoken moral oppositi…

The arguments you make could equally well be applied to libraries. Libraries “steal” money from authors by making books more freely available, in largely the same way that piracy does. They also make books available to people who otherwise couldn’t afford them.

Reductio ad absurdum.
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