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A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

latimes.com

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Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#71

Post by olavk »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #31
captain_perl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a student of WW2, millions of Japanese lives were saved by the atomic bombs: 1) Japanese military leaders were planning to continue fighting until no citizens were left: "even if the Japanese people die, their spirit will live on." Surrender rates in previous island battles were on the order of 1% (ie. 99% killed or seriously injured.) 2) the Japanese people were facing starvation had the war continued. The early…

This is not true, serious military figures in the US armed forces concluded that Japan was utterly defeated and was making peace feelers. They were basically defenseless at that stage of the war, against the bombing raids. The civilian massacre could have been prevented by merely demonstrating the bomb. However they chose to experiment by dropping it on an city.

I think this ignores the historical context. The US had air control and been bombing the mainland relentlessly for a while. The firebombing of Tokyo had already caused bigger loss of life than the Hiroshima bomb did. So it was clear to both parties that the US did have the destructive capability and were willing to use it. This did not cause the Japanese to surrender. Why would it have made any difference to "demonstrate" the bomb, if actually bombing the capital and killing 100000 did not have that effect?

Even after the second bomb, just before announcing the surrender, there was an attempted coup d'etat by high ranking officers to prevent the surrender. So its not like surrender was a given after seeing a nuclear bomb.

It is only in retrospect it seems obvious that the nuclear bomb would lead to surrender. Even taking about "the decision to drop the bomb" as it was some unique moral dilemma is kind of anachronistic. Of course they were going to drop the bomb, just like they used any other weapon at their disposal.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#72

Post by GlennS »

captain_perl wrote: post #26
baddox wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: people who claim that the atomic bombings of Japan saved lives, and the people who claim that white people deserve credit for being the people who ended slavery in the United States.

As a student of WW2, millions of Japanese lives were saved by the atomic bombs: 1) Japanese military leaders were planning to continue fighting until no citizens were left: "even if the Japanese people die, their spirit will live on." Surrender rates in previous island battles were on the order of 1% (ie. 99% killed or seriously injured.) 2) the Japanese people were facing starvation had the war continued. The early…

This is incorrect. The Japanese were trying to negotiate surrender through the Russians, with their sole condition being that they could keep their Emperor. The Russians had not informed the USA.

The USA knew all of this, because they had cracked the Japanese codes and read their messages.

So yes, dropping the bombs was a straightforward attrocity.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#73

Post by jfk13 »

abalone wrote: post #66
GuardianCaveman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article quotes one soldier there was a mai Lai every month. You make it sound like this was a fact in the article. One unnamed soldier claimed that. And I think the free fire zones were much more centered on artillery and air strikes and not ground infiltrations just walking and shooting whomever they wanted to, but it’s still horrible the disregard for human life. But to state as you do that civilian mass mur…

That is pure unresearched wishful thinking. They would fly helicopters up to farmers on a field who would look up at them in confusion and do nothing. Then they'd turn on a siren and when the farmers scattered they shot them all down for taking "evasive action", making them "combatants". There'd be reports of raids with hundreds of "viet cong" killed and a few weapons recovered. The killing machine was about body cou…

> twice the ordinance dropped in WWII

Nit-picking: it's "ordnance", not "ordinance".

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#74

Post by simonh »

candiodari wrote: post #70
fit2rule wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, thats the point of this history lesson - we are still committing these crimes, on a regular basis, with impunity. The only ones who can do anything about it is civilians. But, none of us seem to be too bothered by the 300,000 innocent lives lost, because America needs war.

"we" sadly means all of humanity. This is a problem of government forces in general: Here's the other side in that same war doing it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Hu%E1%BA%BF Here's UN forces: https://www.apnews.com/69e56ab46cab400f9f4b3753bd79c930 The Dutch army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rawagede_massacre Saudi forces: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/a-saudi-coal... The French army:…

My first thought was, oh no not another “whatabout” post. But no, you’re making a good point in a fair and informative way. Thanks.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#75

Post by olavk »

vbezhenar wrote: post #33
baddox wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: people who claim that the atomic bombings of Japan saved lives, and the people who claim that white people deserve credit for being the people who ended slavery in the United States.

History is written by victors.

Not necessarily. For example, the history of the Vietnam War is mostly written by Americans, even though the US lost.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#76

Post by akudha »

candiodari wrote: post #70
fit2rule wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, thats the point of this history lesson - we are still committing these crimes, on a regular basis, with impunity. The only ones who can do anything about it is civilians. But, none of us seem to be too bothered by the 300,000 innocent lives lost, because America needs war.

"we" sadly means all of humanity. This is a problem of government forces in general: Here's the other side in that same war doing it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Hu%E1%BA%BF Here's UN forces: https://www.apnews.com/69e56ab46cab400f9f4b3753bd79c930 The Dutch army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rawagede_massacre Saudi forces: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/a-saudi-coal... The French army:…

Indian army in Sri Lanka - https://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/17/world/studies-find-tortur...

Indian army in its own borders, in Kashmir - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_abuses_in_Jammu_a...

Japanese army in China - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

We can make a big list, it would be very depressing.

Humans across the world are generally pretty good in saying "it is only crime when the other side does it, not when we do".

"We" definitely means all of humanity.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#77

Post by pvsukale1 »

I read the wikipedia article about this article. There is picture of a woman seconds before being killed. She is with her children. She was recently sexually abused and was trying to tie her buttons. And it is really devastating. How did United States get away with this? All that captain got was a 3 years house arrest?!

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#78

Post by downandout »

gerdesj wrote: post #25
stevehb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not blocked here in Taiwan. I wonder if they're blocking it because of the GDPR?

Yes it is almost certainly blocked due to a misunderstanding of what the GDPR is .

Another possibility is that they understand GDPR perfectly, and chose not to take on the immense liability associated with accepting traffic from those that are "protected" by it. It's a perfectly reasonable, logical decision, given that GDPR is a complex piece of legislation with enormous room for different interpretations under the laws of 28 unique countries, the enforcement of which is fraught with conflicts of interest.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#79

Post by [deleted] »

abalone wrote: post #66
GuardianCaveman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article quotes one soldier there was a mai Lai every month. You make it sound like this was a fact in the article. One unnamed soldier claimed that. And I think the free fire zones were much more centered on artillery and air strikes and not ground infiltrations just walking and shooting whomever they wanted to, but it’s still horrible the disregard for human life. But to state as you do that civilian mass mur…

That is pure unresearched wishful thinking. They would fly helicopters up to farmers on a field who would look up at them in confusion and do nothing. Then they'd turn on a siren and when the farmers scattered they shot them all down for taking "evasive action", making them "combatants". There'd be reports of raids with hundreds of "viet cong" killed and a few weapons recovered. The killing machine was about body cou…

[deleted]
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