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What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

jeremydormitzer.com

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Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#71

Post by tptacek »

stcredzero wrote: post #46
CM30 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The idea that you should be able to shield or blind yourself to content is a flat out stupid one. Honest question: Do you feel private organisations and communities shouldn't be able to kick out people they dislike? Because that's how almost all organisations and groups work, real life, internet or otherwise. Doesn't seem very unreasonable to say someone running a hobbyist club or sports team or business should be a…

Do you feel private organisations and communities shouldn't be able to kick out people they dislike? Because that's how almost all organisations and groups work, real life, internet or otherwise. Do you feel like people should be excluded because of their race? Their gender? Their age? Their sexual orientation? Their religion? Isn't that last one a choice according to a lot of people? People should be able to make in…

How does your argument not boil down to the claim that "blocking Neo-Nazis is as bad as being a Neo-Nazi"?

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#72

Post by est »

hello_marmalade wrote: post #29

The idea that you should be able to shield or blind yourself to content is a flat out stupid one. Not to mention that the way Mastodon works kinda lends it self to the old issue of jerk forum admins. If an instance owner doesn't like what you say for any reason they boot you off. They can also share that information with other instances to block you from going to those instances as well. Sure, you could start your ow…

> instance owner doesn't like what you say for any reason they boot you off

That's why I think adding naked domain in ActivityPub is important. It avoids double @user@domain.tld, you can simply use your tld. It's easier to remember, also better to self-host.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#73

Post by dielan »

If you're one of those people reading this and thinking "oh here comes another alternative social media" just stop reading and steer clear.

Mastodon is compatible with OStatus used by GNU social servers and Pleroma is basically the spiritual successor to GNU Social and is fully activitypub compliant (moreso than Mastodon is). This network has existed for a very long time and will still be there when you're ready to take alternative social media seruously. So if you're skeptical, check back when you're ready.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#74

Post by tptacek »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #67
throwaway8879 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private business are not "places in the public sphere" and should be exclusionary if they want to. You think the New York Times is going to publish something just because someone sends in their thoughts? It doesn't work that way, and neither should media on the internet.

Private businesses are absolutely places in the public sphere. If you pull your pants down in the middle of a Wal-Mart, are you not exposing yourself in public? YouTube, Twitter, etc. and similar public sites with predominantly public content are absolutely "in the public sphere", and definitely the modern analogue of the street corner you can shout your feelings in. We really no longer have the luxury of saying the…

Don't try to approach the law axiomatically like that. You won't get anywhere. In this case, you have it backwards: the law doesn't start with a definition of "public place" and then attach conditions to it, but rather starts with conditions ("you can't lasciviously expose yourself in public") to which specific definitions of the word public space are attached.

It does not therefore make sense to reason from "indecent exposure is illegal in a grocery store" to "here is a set of claims I can make on a grocery store as a public space".

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#75

Post by stcredzero »

tptacek wrote: post #71
stcredzero wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel private organisations and communities shouldn't be able to kick out people they dislike? Because that's how almost all organisations and groups work, real life, internet or otherwise. Do you feel like people should be excluded because of their race? Their gender? Their age? Their sexual orientation? Their religion? Isn't that last one a choice according to a lot of people? People should be able to make in…

How does your argument not boil down to the claim that "blocking Neo-Nazis is as bad as being a Neo-Nazi"?

Again, that depends on how you do it. Are you going to block them through argument, or positive example? Or are you going to block them through violence and suppression?

Which side is the morally better and truly better side? I think historians will be judging us by our words and actions. My argument was never that blocking X was being X. My argument is always that acting as X is being X. If Antifa wants to argue that they can use assault (or tolerate it from those wearing their colors) because they are only X% as bad as Nazis, then I think we should take them at their word and treat them if they're as bad as X% Nazis.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#76

Post by stcredzero »

tptacek wrote: post #74
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private businesses are absolutely places in the public sphere. If you pull your pants down in the middle of a Wal-Mart, are you not exposing yourself in public? YouTube, Twitter, etc. and similar public sites with predominantly public content are absolutely "in the public sphere", and definitely the modern analogue of the street corner you can shout your feelings in. We really no longer have the luxury of saying the…

Don't try to approach the law axiomatically like that. You won't get anywhere. In this case, you have it backwards: the law doesn't start with a definition of "public place" and then attach conditions to it, but rather starts with conditions ("you can't lasciviously expose yourself in public") to which specific definitions of the word public space are attached. It does not therefore make sense to reason from "indecen…

It does not therefore make sense to reason from "indecent exposure is illegal in a grocery store" to "here is a set of claims I can make on a grocery store as a public space".

Then how is it that it's illegal for a grocery store to exclude people because of their race? There is clearly some reason that people can't be excluded from a such a space, while there also exist exclusive private clubs.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#77

Post by tptacek »

stcredzero wrote: post #76
tptacek wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't try to approach the law axiomatically like that. You won't get anywhere. In this case, you have it backwards: the law doesn't start with a definition of "public place" and then attach conditions to it, but rather starts with conditions ("you can't lasciviously expose yourself in public") to which specific definitions of the word public space are attached. It does not therefore make sense to reason from "indecen…

It does not therefore make sense to reason from "indecent exposure is illegal in a grocery store" to "here is a set of claims I can make on a grocery store as a public space". Then how is it that it's illegal for a grocery store to exclude people because of their race? There is clearly some reason that people can't be excluded from a such a space, while there also exist exclusive private clubs.

I don't understand why this is hard to answer. The reason you can't do that is because the federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 forbids that explicitly, and includes its own definition of what institutions the law applies to.

I'm also a bit confused by your "then how do you..." framing, as if you might be able to find a first-principles argument to refute my argument, which is a pretty straightforward fact you can just look up in any state's indecent exposure statute.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#78

Post by throwaway8879 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #67
throwaway8879 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private business are not "places in the public sphere" and should be exclusionary if they want to. You think the New York Times is going to publish something just because someone sends in their thoughts? It doesn't work that way, and neither should media on the internet.

Private businesses are absolutely places in the public sphere. If you pull your pants down in the middle of a Wal-Mart, are you not exposing yourself in public? YouTube, Twitter, etc. and similar public sites with predominantly public content are absolutely "in the public sphere", and definitely the modern analogue of the street corner you can shout your feelings in. We really no longer have the luxury of saying the…

I apologize, but that's just silly. Private businesses are NOT platforms that should guarantee everyone the right to speak. If we follow that line of reasoning, then I suppose I could walk into any restaurant and demand to eat for free since as a private entity they shouldn't have the right to refuse me, right?

If you're making the argument that the law needs to change and these platforms need to be regulated, that's another argument. Though I can foresee how that will lead to a dark path. I strongly believe in the right of a human to speak their mind without fear of persecution, but I also think a private business has the right to refuse speech they do not like.

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#79

Post by tptacek »

stcredzero wrote: post #75
tptacek wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does your argument not boil down to the claim that "blocking Neo-Nazis is as bad as being a Neo-Nazi"?

Again, that depends on how you do it. Are you going to block them through argument, or positive example? Or are you going to block them through violence and suppression? Which side is the morally better and truly better side? I think historians will be judging us by our words and actions. My argument was never that blocking X was being X. My argument is always that acting as X is being X. If Antifa wants to argue tha…

Obviously I'm going to block them by filtering them mechanically, because nobody has a right to demand an argument or a "positive example" from me. With that answer in hand, can you refine your answer to my question?

Re: What is ActivityPub, and how will it change the internet?

#80

Post by throwaway8879 »

stcredzero wrote: post #75
tptacek wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does your argument not boil down to the claim that "blocking Neo-Nazis is as bad as being a Neo-Nazi"?

Again, that depends on how you do it. Are you going to block them through argument, or positive example? Or are you going to block them through violence and suppression? Which side is the morally better and truly better side? I think historians will be judging us by our words and actions. My argument was never that blocking X was being X. My argument is always that acting as X is being X. If Antifa wants to argue tha…

Morality has nothing to do with it, or at least shouldn't. It's a business with profit in mind. You think all these recent deplatforming/censoring has anything to do with freedom of speech or setting positive examples?

Nobody has time for that, especially businesses that are profit-driven and rightfully so. Everyone should have the right to speak their mind, but you don't get to violate the right of a private platform to exclude you based on rules they have set. You have a right to be heard, just build your own platform, nobody is stopping you.

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