Subject: Airbnb (2011) • Hacker News Board

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#71

Post by TheTrotters » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

jermaustin1 wrote: post #39

jMyles wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we don't all agree that the changes are tantamount to "damage", first of all. For my part, having lived much of my adult life in New Paltz, AirBnb has greatly increased the availability of NYC housing for me, as I typically only live in NYC for 3-10 days at a time. I can understand that, if your desire is to live there perpetually for years, you might have a different perception. Perhaps living in a single plac…

> if your desire is to live there perpetually for years You mean like 99% of people? When you work in the city, grew up in the city, have met almost everyone you know in the city, to then be forced out of the city because people want to rent their apartments out for 3-10 days at a time instead of 1-3 years means that people who need the stability of a permanent address now have to either shell out much more cash than…

But the solution is simple: build more apartments. There's no reason there shouldn't be enough housing for way, way more people other than that it's the policy of local government and the preference of many voters.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#72

Post by elhudy » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #60

elhudy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be a new word for this type of gentrification.

People refusing to stay in the locality and socioeconomic conditions of their birth place, and instead exploring the world and learning about its people, is gentrification now? The amount of NYC-born privilege being waved around in this thread is astounding. I have paid, in many ways, for NYC my whole life. It's my city too, even though I wasn't born there. I identify with its culture. I know its geography and social…

Why are you getting so defensive? I agree with you, but that doesn't mean it's not a type of gentrification.

>Why do you think that people who are born in NYC are entitled to these things to the exclusion of the rest of us?

Did I say that? Just because I noted it was gentrification doesn't mean you can treat me like a straw-man punching bag.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#73

Post by presscast » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

rusk wrote: post #68

presscast wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At least in Europe there were apps to call a taxi Where? In France the taxis never accepted debit cards (= tax evasion), and generally provided piss-poor service. They've stepped their game up massively since Uber arrived. In the UK I never saw a taxi app that wasn't an utter heap of garbage. Sweeping generalizations about EU countries are almost always wrong or meaningless.

> In the UK I never saw a taxi app that wasn't an utter heap of garbage. Hold on now. Hailo was amazing. Pity they broke themselves trying to take on the big apple.

Really? On par with Uber? Because that's the goalpost that's been set, here.

Hailo was often fully booked when I tried using it, and I had several previous-day reservations evaporate into thin air. It wasn't (as) reliable.

London taxis have always been slightly better than the FR/ES/BG/IT taxis I've taken, but not that much better. And the apps have either gone bust, not worked, or both.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#74

Post by pjc50 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:40 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #67

jermaustin1 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What annoys me about tourists in Edinburgh, is that everyone wants to pile into Old Town, even though it is so small. No one contemplates Leith or Newington. Neither of those places are beyond a short walk (1-2 miles) to city center, also there are more options for food and drink (especially on Leith Walk).

2 miles isn’t a “short walk” in many parts of the year in Scotland.

This is definitely one of those things that divides locals from visitors; Edinburgh is a walker's city. I walk a mile up one way and downhill the other as part of my commute. But visitors or women in heels are not going to do that at the end of a night out, and that's also when public transport stops, all the taxis are booked, and Uber is on 3x surge pricing.

The festival makes this worse; the city as a whole becomes overbooked.

But the gentrification wave is heading into Leith. You can practically watch it progressing down Leith walk. I suppose the giveaway will be when someone builds a luxury hotel in the old dockyards.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#75

Post by krn » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:43 PM UTC

lmeyerov wrote: post #70

krn wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relatively, yes. Sure, startups have existed for decades, but their popularity now is at a completely different level. Y Combinator, for instance, had 43 startups funded in 2008, and 274 in 2018. I am not even talking about the growth of the entire startup ecosystem, including angel investors and VCs. In 2008, startups were mostly only a thing in the US. Now there are tens of startup hubs across the entire world.

That's rewriting history, including a lot of hard work by a lot of people. YC disrupted the model, it didn't start it. PG repeatedly describes YC as a startup in changing how this works, so mistaking their growth with the industry misses what's happening. The dotcom era had incubators through models like "I have access to capital but no one good idea; let me start a bunch and pick which to go". VCs regularly host EIR…

There are no questions about the history. What I am claiming, is that startups became much more widespread in the years since 2005, after the YC model was introduced.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#76

Post by oftenwrong » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

throwawaymath wrote: post #23

dsl wrote: post #2

Airbnb, like Uber, took advantage of regulatory inefficiencies instead of market inefficiencies. The model is do something (in the minds of regulators) illegal, quickly enough that you can become large enough to get a seat at the table when the regulations are reworked. The counter example to these companies are the ones that quickly raised capital to dump scooters on public streets before they could be shut down by…

Great observation. > The counter example to these companies are the ones that quickly raised capital to dump scooters on public streets before they could be shut down by cities. I live in NYC, and I’m frequently in Westchester (the county immediately north of NYC, for those not familiar with New York). There’s been a large influx of Lime bikes in the past several months. My opinion on Lime - the bike/scooter company…

Uber's disruption subverted the artificial scarcity of for-hire vehicles.

Lime's disruption did not change the artificial scarcity of public space that isn't dedicated to cars.

Public space in the NY metro area is largely devoted to car driving and car parking. An Uber car can tap into this vast resource, but a Lime bike cannot. Things that are not cars are forced to compete for the scarce non-car space. This includes pedestrians, Lime bikes, and garbage bins. Note that Uber is only significantly controversial in places like Manhattan, where car-dedicated space is most scarce.

I think this is part of why these two types of companies have (mostly) fallen on opposite sides of public opinion.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#77

Post by pjc50 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:50 PM UTC

krn wrote: post #62

amitutk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startups were a rarity in 2008?

Relatively, yes. Sure, startups have existed for decades, but their popularity now is at a completely different level. Y Combinator, for instance, had 43 startups funded in 2008, and 274 in 2018. I am not even talking about the growth of the entire startup ecosystem, including angel investors and VCs. In 2008, startups were mostly only a thing in the US. Now there are tens of startup hubs across the entire world.

This version of history doesn't account for the first dotcom boom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#78

Post by kevstev » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:50 PM UTC

krn wrote: post #62

amitutk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startups were a rarity in 2008?

Relatively, yes. Sure, startups have existed for decades, but their popularity now is at a completely different level. Y Combinator, for instance, had 43 startups funded in 2008, and 274 in 2018. I am not even talking about the growth of the entire startup ecosystem, including angel investors and VCs. In 2008, startups were mostly only a thing in the US. Now there are tens of startup hubs across the entire world.

2005 was still a period of massive hangover for tech startups after the .com collapse. To say that startups as a concept weren't a thing, is misunderstanding the situation. Like the rest of the tech industry, the startup scene has matured and grown.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#79

Post by jermaustin1 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:51 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #60

elhudy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be a new word for this type of gentrification.

People refusing to stay in the locality and socioeconomic conditions of their birth place, and instead exploring the world and learning about its people, is gentrification now? The amount of NYC-born privilege being waved around in this thread is astounding. I have paid, in many ways, for NYC my whole life. It's my city too, even though I wasn't born there. I identify with its culture. I know its geography and social…

I'd say that isn't the gentrification, but the fact that a wealth individual can "redevelop" a neighborhood, raising the rents of many less fortunate people who have lived there their entire lives.

Rent Stab/Control exists for a reason, had those generations of people not been there, NYC wouldn't be what it is today. But when the entire neighborhood becomes too expensive because of landlords preferring to run hotels, and the only apartment stock that is affordable is the failing NYCHA properties, then I would consider this a gentrification.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#80

Post by deleted_account » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 3:56 PM UTC

This pg quote has an r/LateStageCapitalism vibe to me: "They just arrived back from NYC, and when I asked them what was the most significant thing they'd observed, it was how many of their users actually needed to do these rentals to pay their rents."