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Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

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Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#71

Post by DoubleCribble »

briandear wrote: post #18
geofft wrote: post #11

A little bit of a tangent, but, > Earlier this month, after five years of organizing, security officers for companies including Facebook, Google, and Genentech, many of whom were making between $12 and $14 an hour, ratified their first union contract. They won wage increases of up to $1.20 per hour, better health care, and, for the first time, paid holidays. How is this rational? Do Facebook and Google believe they a…

What’s rational is that people are accepting positions at those pay rates. If you don’t want $12 per hour, go somewhere willing to pay more — even fast food pays more than that in the Bay Area. Entry level at Target pays over $15. They don’t need a union, they just need to quit and go work somewhere else. No shortages of jobs in the Bay Area— essentially everyone is hiring right now. Why should the company be blamed…

I take it you have never worked in retail because the difference would be immediately obvious.

Why work at large Bay Area tech: - Free catered breakfast, lunch and dinner - Free gourmet coffee - Free snacks - Free drinks - Free company merch: t-shirts, backpacks, jackets, tickets to events, etc. - Nice offices - Nice bathrooms

Added value per day = $75+

Why work at Target: - $3 more per hour

Added value per day = $24 (assuming 8 hour shift)

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#72

Post by dunpeal »

> The tipping point came in January, when management offered additional stock to a handful of high-level male engineers, including Westergard. Employees suspected Lanetix planned to fire lower-level female engineers, many of whom graduated from Hackbright, an all women’s coding boot camp, as did the female engineer fired in November.

What's the full story here?

Layoffs typically happen when a company has cashflow issues preventing it from meeting payroll. "Low level" (read: low paid) employees of any kind are _not_ the first on the chopping block, but on the contrary, the higher paid employees who each cost x3-4 times or more.

Moreover, why would they get rid of most/all female engineers like that? Among other problems, that would expose them to an open-and-shut discrimination case, since sex is a protected class.

This, in conjunction with the fact they decided to pay the senior engineers even more, tells me there's something more to this story.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#73

Post by mc32 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #64
mc32 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think big companies allow employees to have the crown jewels on their co issued devices. They would have to remote into something even they don't have physical security access into.

> They would have to remote into something even they don't have physical security access into. Which they do from their... "co issued devices". And in the days of keys over passwords being standard practice (but 2FA not yet), pwning a worker's device can be very useful even if all the real targets are on remote servers.

I'd be surprised if any of the big tech cos have not deployed U2F.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#74

Post by mushbino »

ma2rten wrote: post #45
Apocryphon wrote: post #39

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

Genuine question: Do other high-skilled professions have unions (like marketeers, scientists, lawyers, doctors, electrical engineers, ...)?

Most of those that you mentioned are considered professions that require some sort of specialized training and/or board certification with some sort of oversight body. While they don't engage in collective bargaining, they do serve to control who is allowed to practice a given profession, thereby limiting the pool of qualified individuals. While different from a union, these professional bodies serve some of the same functions in the end (raising wages, establishing standards, etc.)

As far as why software engineers haven't unionized, I think this answer at the top about sums it up https://www.quora.com/Should-Silicon-Valley-software-enginee...

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#75

Post by smnrchrds »

ma2rten wrote: post #45
Apocryphon wrote: post #39

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

Genuine question: Do other high-skilled professions have unions (like marketeers, scientists, lawyers, doctors, electrical engineers, ...)?

In Alberta, Canada, professional engineers are barred from joining unions. While not universal, it is quite common for provincial engineering associations to bar their members from joining unions. Engineers are also exempt from many labour law protections (overtime, minimum wage, vacation time, etc.). Needless to say, I am not exactly happy with the current state of affairs.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#76

Post by darpa_escapee »

scarejunba wrote: post #60
ma2rten wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: Do other high-skilled professions have unions (like marketeers, scientists, lawyers, doctors, electrical engineers, ...)?

Doctors do. And the terrible influence the AMA has had has warned me off professional unions for life. Never again.

The AMA isn't a union.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#77

Post by asmithmd1 »

ma2rten wrote: post #45
Apocryphon wrote: post #39

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

Genuine question: Do other high-skilled professions have unions (like marketeers, scientists, lawyers, doctors, electrical engineers, ...)?

Yes, Boeing engineers have a union.

Why wouldn't you want a contract with your employer? Top executives have contracts and professional athletes have contracts. My contract is I can be fired at any time for any reason, or no reason.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#78

Post by canhascodez »

briandear wrote: post #19
fogetti wrote: post #8

> Despite their futuristic sheen, tech companies “actually operate like traditional industrialists and will go through old fashioned methods of suppressing workers,” he says. Spot on.

And workers can quit. There are jobs everywhere.

Adam Smith strongly supported the rights of workers to organize against their employers. His reasoning is interesting.

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#79

Post by fisherjeff »

zdragnar wrote: post #68
Apocryphon wrote: post #39

I'm firmly convinced that tech workers will come around to unionizing once they accidentally reinvent it under a different name

Personal anecdata: every company I've worked at would have been worse off (and worse to work at) if the developers had been unionized. I've also avoided working anywhere that thinks you can only be professional if you're wearing a button down shirt and / or a tie, so I don't doubt that some places might benefit. Edit: to be clear, I've never advocated for a union, and I doubt I ever will so long as I am fortunate eno…

Can you elaborate on what would’ve been worse if the devs had unionized?

Re: Labor Board Backs Startup Engineers Fired for Unionizing

#80

Post by scarejunba »

darpa_escapee wrote: post #76
scarejunba wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors do. And the terrible influence the AMA has had has warned me off professional unions for life. Never again.

The AMA isn't a union.

Of course. Their constraining the amount of available labour is classic union-behaviour. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.
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