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Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

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Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#71
post #53
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to take issue with this, because I see this line of argument a lot on HN recently. There is a fundamental difference between "like in kind" and "like in severity". Do the US and China both monitor telecom? Yes. Has the US built a national firewall? No. Do the US and China both have legal processes for acquiring court ordered telecom intercepts? Yes. Is the US legal system wholly subordinate to political goa…

Not a fan or defensor of China here; but the US has way more history of intervention in other countries; so I would be much much worried about US-based companies that provide searching or social networking services

lack of ability is different than lack of desire.

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#72
post #29

"This new architecture provides a way to circumvent traditional security controls by exploiting equipment in the edge of the network – exploitation which may affect overall network integrity and availability, as well as the confidentiality of customer data." Hey Australian Government. You know what also protects confidentiality of customer data? Encryption.

Encryption. pfft! we're going to invest in new coal fired power plants.....

But really this decision was made in a snap by Scott Morrison in a powerplay to look tough on outsiders to the conservative base.

Right now Australia is doing it's 2.5 yearly cycle of deposing a prime minister and installing someone else. Like that Dutton guy from texas :P

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#73
post #25

This is kinda funny and hypocritical when you devote a few brain cells to this. Every country is gathering data on everyone. If you think they are respecting your privacy, you’re naive. The US has been doing it for years. Secretly. EU and I bet you Australia too. And even China, yes. But hey, at least China is honest about what they’re doing. Gotta respect that at least. Point is, it’s just a show.

"Sure, someone is robbing my house, but at least they're honest about their intentions of doing so" is not a good argument.

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#74

This destroys the logic of free trade, competition that countries and a plethora of global organizations like IMF, WB promote and enforced aggressively over the last 40 years especially when looking for markets in other countries. But if its only applicable to a favoured set and suddenly has all sorts of qualifiers when it comes to your own markets then the whole thing collapses. And everyone can see its politics wit…

the logic of free trade meets the logic of national security.

national security is going to win that one unless Australia is going to willfully become a Chinese vassal

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#75
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a fan or defensor of China here; but the US has way more history of intervention in other countries; so I would be much much worried about US-based companies that provide searching or social networking services

But China has a worse record of human rights abuses. In regards to intervention in other countries, China consumes them. Tibet, Taiwan no longer exist according to China. They've all got bad history. If God existed and was to strike down on the unworthy nations of the world, very few would be spared. And I dislike this as much as any rational person (hello? rational people...?) but if it came to choosing sides in wha…

> Taiwan no longer exist according to China

Is there any government which believes that Taiwan is an independent country? I thought there were only three positions being held:

1) The People's Republic of China is sovereign overall of China, including mainland and Taiwan.

2) The Republic of China is sovereign overall of China, including mainland and Taiwan.

3)

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#76
post #26
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an EU citizen I certainly prefer to be spied on by a country with a working legal system.

The US doesn't really have a working legal system for things happening outside its borders. In fact as a non US citizen outside the US you don't have much protection at all.

And as you can see by the downvotes, people are even ignorant of the fact that e.g. the bill of rights doesn't apply to people outside of the US. Which means no one in the US will even fight for you, which is even worse. This is exactly what you see happening today with the large tech companies where people working there are ignorant of effect of their own actions. The US already wire tapped much of the EUs financial transactions. Which they could do because it simply wasn't illegal by US law.

"It's also worth noting that as long as the agencies are focusing their activities on the actions of foreigners then there's not even anything illegal happening by our domestic laws."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/09/15/how-exce...

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#77
post #49
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to take issue with this, because I see this line of argument a lot on HN recently. There is a fundamental difference between "like in kind" and "like in severity". Do the US and China both monitor telecom? Yes. Has the US built a national firewall? No. Do the US and China both have legal processes for acquiring court ordered telecom intercepts? Yes. Is the US legal system wholly subordinate to political goa…

I really dislike the "they're both the same" arguments. People do the same about the US political parties (and use this as an excuse to either not vote, or vote for their favorite side, based on this). This thinking allows people to let the worse offender off the hook.

"they're both the same" is never an argument, it's a lazy cop out from someone who is either too cynical or disillusioned to care and do their own research.

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#78

Many people seem to dislike the anti-china move. However, let's not forget that china has put over 1 million Muslims in literal concentration or reeducation camps. That's wrong. China needs to stop, and if not buying their cell gear helps, we should consider it too.

And what are the US kill stats up to recently? There are no good guys.

That is not relevant to the discussion

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#79

Many people seem to dislike the anti-china move. However, let's not forget that china has put over 1 million Muslims in literal concentration or reeducation camps. That's wrong. China needs to stop, and if not buying their cell gear helps, we should consider it too.

> Many people seem to dislike the anti-china move.

Eh, this will be settled in the courts and the WTO. Western governments have conspired to manufacture this idea that Huawei and ZTE are exporting compromised devices. Everybody except the Western press who dutifully repeat this propaganda knows it is pure bullshit. Huawei and ZTE devices have been studied, taken apart and put together and analyzed over and over and over again. The British put together a whole special taskforce and studied every chip for years and found absolutely nothing [1]. The same happened in France and Germany and Japan. To date nobody has ever found any kind of actual backdoor or security trap on devices exported from China. There have been security bugs and holes but there are bugs in all devices and certainly when you compare Huawei and ZTE devices to say Cisco well the record speaks for itself.

Despite this complete lack of actual evidence the governments and the press are working hand in hand to distort the market because they know they can't actually compete with Chinese firms on fair conditions. Until today though nobody has had the balls to implement an actual import ban, instead what we've seen are bullshit directives not to buy the devices for government networks along with an endless propaganda campaign in the press. This crosses the line and makes it an actionable matter for the courts.

> However, let's not forget that china has put over 1 million Muslims in literal concentration or reeducation camps. That's wrong.

More propaganda. The only thing shocking here is that people will believe such complete nonsense without any evidence. Sorry, but a bunch of "credible reports" -- all undisclosed -- and satellite photos of half-constructed camps does not prove anything except that Western press will lie with impunity when it comes to Iraq/Iran/NK/China/enemy-du-jour and Western audiences will accept these lies uncritically without even the tiniest bit of skepticism. This happens again and again and again. Nobody ever learns.

I think the Chinese have the right idea. There's no winning in the court of public opinion. Westerners live in a hermetically sealed paranoid fantasy and there's nothing anybody can say and do to break them out of it. Focus all your energy on building better products and taking lawbreakers to court and over time you'll likely come out ahead.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44891913

Re: Australia bans Huawei and ZTE from supplying technology for its 5G network

#80
post #53
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to take issue with this, because I see this line of argument a lot on HN recently. There is a fundamental difference between "like in kind" and "like in severity". Do the US and China both monitor telecom? Yes. Has the US built a national firewall? No. Do the US and China both have legal processes for acquiring court ordered telecom intercepts? Yes. Is the US legal system wholly subordinate to political goa…

Not a fan or defensor of China here; but the US has way more history of intervention in other countries; so I would be much much worried about US-based companies that provide searching or social networking services

but the US has way more history of intervention in other countries

Not exactly sure how'd you quantify it, but I think the people of Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Malaysia, Cambodia, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Mongolia, Singapore, Tibet, Myanmar, and India might take issue with that claim[1].

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Peo...

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