71–80 of 172 posts
We are playing with regular couriers for the first time! And against a pro team.
Pain isn't the toughest of opponents at TI. Will they be playing vs a team that is currently still alive in the bracket? So far it seems Pain is kind of controlling the game at least much better vs the caster team (99th percentile)
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That's what OpenAI claims, but there have been too many insta-hex/euls moments for me to believe that. Players are shift-queing blink+AoE spells and getting hexed in between the two abilities. That's way faster than a 200 ms reaction time. I think OpenAI might have a bug with how they're adding reaction time.
Someone did an analysis on this because it seemed like insta hex the last time they played, but they were all pre-queued and the 200ms turned out to be accurate.
Overall a very good game. Definitely smart on PAIN gaming's part to delay the game and wait until the mid game (where OpenAI traditionally excels the most) is over in order to rely on their stronger carry. I think the lack of 5 couriers really showed where OpenAI had a crutch the last game it played. Excited to see the improvements as this goes on, and I suspect that next year we'll see the OpenAI team beat the #1 ra…
Loved the strategy used by Pain. They recognised that fighting OpenAI wasn’t working so they actively avoided fights. They recognised strategic shortcomings, like the AI’s reluctance to pressure lanes and exploited it. What disappointed me a bit is that the AI didn’t make a concerted effort to win the game when it was strongest.
Not to take anything away from Pain--just making it to TI is enough to prove that they're excellent Dota players.
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Many believe that it’s an exponential curve so there’s a substantial difference between the first and twentieth place teams.
Looking historically at team ELO and how squads have gone on 27-series win streaks, this is probably right. Though I think the gap between "low-tier" TI teams and TI winners is getting much tighter. Group B at TI8 was so close the difference between upper-bracket and lower-bracket was 1 game for most of the teams.
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These were the limitations for the previous OpenAI game: - Random Draft using a pool of 18 heroes (Crystal Maiden, Death Prophet, Earthshaker, Gyrocopter, Lich, Lion, Necrophos, Queen of Pain, Razor, Riki, Shadow Fiend, Slark, Sniper, Sven, Tidehunter, Viper, or Witch Doctor) - No summons/illusions - 5 invulnerable couriers, no exploiting them by scouting or tanking - No Scan Not sure if this match has the same limit…
They didn't have the invincible carriers and had more heros this time around.
They had a fixed draft from the above pool with 1 new hero:
Crystal Maiden, Death Prophet, Tidehunter, Gyrocopter and Lich
vs
Lion, Necrophos, Sniper, Witch Doctor and Axe (the new one).
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> his team isn't the strongest (they placed 17-18th during this TI) Oh, is that all :P. Assuming a 2x buffer for players who are good but not competitive, there are maybe 200 humans in the world who are better at DotA. If mastery is 1 in 10,000, these people are masters.
Many believe that it’s an exponential curve so there’s a substantial difference between the first and twentieth place teams.
Actually, "weaker" (top 20) teams regularly do take games off better teams so I don't think there's much evidence for an exponential skill increase between teams.
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I think it’s becoming clear that the network is overfitting to team fights (and other small duration action). OpenAI use of cooldowns in the last 20 minutes was inexcusable. It became obvious OpenAI had no working strategy.
Is OpenAI's expected win chance available anywhere? Only the bot reaction time against initiations was keeping them in the game for the last 20 minutes, so it might have been the desperate flailing typical of bots when they are losing.
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I don't believe this is the case, as OpenAI was able to hex (an immediate disable) Earthshaker before he got off Echoslam (a spell with no cast delay except the time to click the key).
Did he blink in? Is there a delay there?
Outfought the humans in teamfights, other than that not sure how much long term strategic thought was shown.
It was frustrating to see it do so many things well but make strange decisions otherwise - poor warding. Some wards were simply wasted. (Wards are small, invisible, immovable units that grant vision) - using powerful long cool down spells to earn gold instead of keeping it in reserve for fights - not recognising that one of the lanes needed to be pushed out. Eventually this bit them in the ass. - using buybacks where…