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Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

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Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#71
post #11

Serious question: as we make opiods and now bezos increasingly difficult to prescribe, what are the alternatives for people with chronic pain or chronic anxiety? I have friends and family members with chronic pain and, through them and their communities, have become aware of many people who use opiods on a long-term, occasional basis to manage their pain. A family member of mine who suffers from chronic migraine live…

There are newer benzos (and analogs) that have less negative effects than Valium or Xanax, but they don't seem to be popular in the developed world for whatever reason.

Etizolam is one such drug. It's prescribed in Japan and India, but not really anywhere else as far as I can tell. It has a lower potential for dependance than classical benzodiazepines and tolerance builds up a lot slower. Anecdotally from people I know who've taken it, its acute effects feel much more mild than Xanax or Valium. In my limited experience, Valium feels like you've been lobotomised, and Etizolam feels like you've been given a big hug.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#72
post #28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about pain, but for anxiety there are other drugs that are intended for long term use. The ones I'm aware of (mirtazapine and venlafaxine) are also used as anti-depressants.

Benzos generally treat acute anxiety where serotonin/norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors treat chronic anxiety. Further, some folks don't tolerate SS(N)RI's very well, they have wide-ranging and difficult side-effects.

Yeah, I can see where there'd be cases where SSRIs and SNRIs wouldn't work out; everyone's situation is a little different.

It seems like there's a problem in the general case though, if you have doctors that are a little too quick to prescribe benzos and refer the prescribing of antidepressants to a specialist. For those that live in an area with a shortage of mental health professionals, it might take a month or two to see a psychiatrist (and then maybe only after talking to a therapist or something first), and then maybe a few weeks more before the antidepressants start working, which is longer than anyone ought to be on benzos if they can at all help it.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#73

Taking 1/4 pill of Xanax occasionally together with 1200 mg piracetam + 3 mg sunifiram + another 1200 mg piracetam pill some hours later is amazing for concentration (but that's my personal experience, just sharing it, I don't recommend this to anybody, also neither piracetam nor sunifiram are approved by the FDA). Almost cures my ADHD and anxiety altogether and makes me happy and super productive (as compared to my…

I'm with you here.

The problem is that you look like someone who has done their research, is knowledgeable and self aware, and trying to (seemingly successfully) address a problem.

Lots and lots of people are nothing like that. They just want to get high. Escape reality at all costs, no matter the damage to themselves or others.

This isn't the drugs' problem or fault, obviously. Those people will use alcohol and other means to get fucked up and they will obtain the drugs they want illegaly anyway.

THE THING IS: While it's illegal to get those drugs, society can demonise those people and politicians can run with that as their platform.

Should drugs be made legal, all it will take is one idiot killing themselves or others while on drugs and suddenly it's the drugs' fault again, and the next politician running with a 'tough on drugs' stance will win.

People will look for blame and they will not do so rationally.

Self-driving cars will be dragged through the press for every accident there is, even if they are 10,000x less likely to crash. People are afraid of flying. Videogames are the reason for killing sprees, etc. etc.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#74

GABA receptor modulation is no joke. I was prescribed Xanax for panic attacks. My PC kept increasing my dosage, until I decided I had had enough. Withdrawal was nightmarish, but luckily I hadn't been using it that long (only for two weeks or so). My brain chemistry was never quite the same. I ended up looking for substitutes like Phenibut and Etizolam. With these I was addicted to the confidence they gave me in appro…

Etizolam isn't really a substitute, it's a benzo as well (technically an analog), it just has reduced negative effects from chronic use and tends feel more mild.

And since we're LSD as a potential therapeutic tool, as always I'm going to tack on this disclaimer: if using psychedelics as a therapeutic tool, make sure to take them in a positive environment (which your house might not be) with people you like and ensure that you have somebody with experience in psychedelics to guide you and assist you.

It is a very powerful tool for healing though. I know people who have used it (with the above precautions) to essentially overwrite negative memories and experiences. As always though, everybody has a different experience and it isn't as effective for some as for others, and people should be always careful with anything that fucks with your psyche in such a powerful way.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#75
I take 1mg xanax up to once a day (typically every other day) and it has completely changed my life for the better. In conjunction with propranolol taken regularly (20mg twice a day, roughly), my anxiety is finally in a fairly well-controlled state. Unfortunately, getting benzo prescriptions -- even for the low dosage and frequency I'm on -- is hard and getting harder. Ordering it online is possible but rife with scams and risks. I understand that some people abuse these medications but for me they're life-saving; in cracking down on benzo prescriptions, my anxiety medication is becoming a source of anxiety in itself.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#76
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For benzos: There really is no drug alternative to benzos other than maybe SSRIs but most people perscribed them probably tried SSRIs in the past to no effect. Your other alternative is extensive psychotherapy, which your insurance is unlikely to cover. Perhaps in the future marijuana, MDMA or ketamine might prove useful. Benzos generally require you to taper off them, as I believe the withdrawal side-effects include…

The other long-term side effect of benzos is that they have shown to speed up dementia in older people. This may be motivation enough to quit for some people.

6% increase in older women.

And I don't think there was more than one study?

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#77
post #11

Serious question: as we make opiods and now bezos increasingly difficult to prescribe, what are the alternatives for people with chronic pain or chronic anxiety? I have friends and family members with chronic pain and, through them and their communities, have become aware of many people who use opiods on a long-term, occasional basis to manage their pain. A family member of mine who suffers from chronic migraine live…

> have become aware of many people who use opiods on a long-term, occasional basis to manage their pain

This is the correct way to use opioids for long term pain, but it's only useful for a small number of people.

https://www.rcoa.ac.uk/faculty-of-pain-medicine/opioids-awar...

"A small proportion of patients may obtain good pain relief with opioids in the long term if the dose can be kept low and especially if their use is intermittent (however it is difficult to identify these people at the point of opioid initiation".

This "small proportion" is in the UK context, where we are already prescribing much less opioids.

The mistake people make is to think that opioids are effective to treat long term pain. For most people they do not work to treat long term pain. The patient develops tolerance, needs increasing doses, and eventually they're taking dangerously high doses and also not getting pain relief.

We need to understand that there are limited treatments for chronic pain. Some people will need to lose weight and exercise. Some people may find a psychological treatment useful to either treat the pain or come to terms to live with the pain.

https://www.rcoa.ac.uk/node/21134

"Chronic pain can cause low mood, irritability, poor sleep and reduced ability to move around. Unlike acute pain, chronic pain is difficult to treat with most types of treatment helping less than a third of patients. Most treatments aim to help you self-manage your pain and improve what you can do. Different treatments work for different people. Medicines generally and opioids in particular are often not very effective for chronic pain. Other non-medicine treatments may be used such as electrical stimulating techniques (TENS machine), acupuncture, advice about activity and increasing physical fitness, and psychological treatments such as Cognitive Behaviour Therapy and meditation techniques such as mindfulness. Helping you understand about chronic pain is important and in particular helping you understand that physical activity does not usually cause further injury and is therefore safe. It is important that you understand that treatments tend not to be very effective and that the aim is to support you in functioning as well as possible."

"Neuropathic pain is a type of chronic pain associated with injury to nerves or the nervous system. Types of neuropathic pain include, sciatica following disc prolapse, nerve injury following spinal surgery, pain after infection such as shingles or HIV/AIDS, pain associated with diabetes, pain after amputation (phantom limb pain or stump pain) and pain associated with multiple sclerosis or stroke. Neuropathic pain is usually severe and unpleasant. Medicines may be used to treat neuropathic pain but are usually not very effective and work for a small proportion of people. You may not benefit from the first drug tried so you may need to try more than one drug to try and improve symptoms."

I get the feeling that you're not aware of the scale of over-prescribing in the US. The US prescribes hugely more opioids than other countries. For example, for a while the US was using 99% of the world supply of hydrocodone.

The US could correctly treat the small number of people who'd get benefit from occasionaly tightly controlled opioid prescribing while also massively reducing the total number of opioidprescriptions.

And for anxiety the story is similar. The evidence for efficacy of benzos isn't great.

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg113/chapter/Key-prioritie...

You need a stepped approach:

individual non-facilited self help

individual guided self help

psycho-educational groups (for one example see Recovery Colleges https://www.health.org.uk/recovery-college

If these don't work you offer a high intensity psychological intervention, or a medication.

Notice that for medication they say "Do not offer a benzodiazepine for the treatment of GAD in primary or secondary care except as a short-term measure during crises. Follow the advice in the 'British national formulary' on the use of a benzodiazepine in this context."

Every time the patient collects their benzos from the pharmacy there will be a patient information leaflet. Here's an example for diazepam: https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/18061

I get the feeling that benzos are far more readily prescribed in the US, and for long times.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#78
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For benzos: There really is no drug alternative to benzos other than maybe SSRIs but most people perscribed them probably tried SSRIs in the past to no effect. Your other alternative is extensive psychotherapy, which your insurance is unlikely to cover. Perhaps in the future marijuana, MDMA or ketamine might prove useful. Benzos generally require you to taper off them, as I believe the withdrawal side-effects include…

> There really is no drug alternative to benzos other than maybe SSRIs but most people perscribed them probably tried SSRIs in the past to no effect. Actually the two really serve different purposes. Benzos are commonly prescribed as a way to manage panic attacks or other acute occurrences of anxiety. SSRIs can help reduce your anxiety over time, but take a long time to build up in your system. Often people are presc…

> Benzos are commonly prescribed as a way to manage panic attacks or other acute occurrences of anxiety.

That's how they're supposed to be prescribed, but in this threaad we see a few people who take a daily benzo and have done for several months.

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#79

For anyone looking to quit benzodiazepines, the Ashton Manual is the canonical resource: https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

The Ashton Manual is good resource, but the state of the art taper method as far as I know is the liquid titration (via suspension, not solution) micro-taper. See, e.g., https://www.google.com/search?q=benzobuddies+micro+taper+liq... .

Re: Benzodiazepines: Our Other Prescription Drug Problem

#80
post #11

Serious question: as we make opiods and now bezos increasingly difficult to prescribe, what are the alternatives for people with chronic pain or chronic anxiety? I have friends and family members with chronic pain and, through them and their communities, have become aware of many people who use opiods on a long-term, occasional basis to manage their pain. A family member of mine who suffers from chronic migraine live…

For benzos: There really is no drug alternative to benzos other than maybe SSRIs but most people perscribed them probably tried SSRIs in the past to no effect. Your other alternative is extensive psychotherapy, which your insurance is unlikely to cover. Perhaps in the future marijuana, MDMA or ketamine might prove useful. Benzos generally require you to taper off them, as I believe the withdrawal side-effects include…

SSRIs and benzodiazepines are not comparable at all, nor a substitute, nor it needs to be that way. Question your government instead, as it's the one doing the banning because some people abuse it, while most of us DO ACTUALLY NEED IT. People are suffering at the expense of other people, because the Government can dictate what you can put or not put in your own body.

People abused and still abuse glue (inhalation), did we ban glue yet, for fuck's sake?

Why do people think prohibition works? Just look at all the awful consequences of such prohibition. In France, making codeine prescription-only (from OTC) led people to the use of heroin (illegally), which is far worse than codeine. In the US, you have the War on Drugs, which clearly has failed, there is a fuckton of crimes associated with it which would cease to exist if they were legal, and then the usual argument "but all people would be junkies" clearly don't apply, because both Portugal and The Netherlands are doing just fine, and Portugal got better off by decriminalizing drug use, as in, less drug-related injuries, reduced drug use, and so on. The evidence is all there, but the FDA and anyone who supports it just wants to grab on that sweet money from the Big Pharma, hence why Kratom was both claimed to be an opioid, AND possessing no medical value (contradictory), and at the same time they are trying to extract its alkaloids to patent it and make a medicine out of it, which of course just brings them millions of USD in the end. Thank your socialist FDA, and thank your authoritarian government for all the unnecessary suffering of individuals, who are suffering for the actions of some.

Or look at UK, I always laugh [not because I find the deaths of people humorous, but because whatever the Government is trying (?) to do, it backfires, ALWAYS] when I see articles of people being stabbed, I'm confused, I thought banning knives worked, apart from rising of such attacks and deaths. Interesting how that works, right? Prohibition has always failed. If you want to kill someone, you can just do it with a single punch to the throat (for which I have footage). What next? Are you going to ban showing fists? Which brings me back to City of Berkeley, where they banned rocks in a completely arbitrary zone, i.e. if you pick up a rock inside [or enter the zone with a rock in your hand] that arbitrary zone, you are committing a crime and you will be taken away somewhere more horrible, and in case you can't pay a fine, you might work it off, or sit in prison for a while, where you WILL change, and not for the better: for the worse. This is how our system works. Do you like it? If yes, you are part of the problem, and you lost the right to complain when it's your life, or your family's life on the line. Let's save us each other from double standards and affirmative actions. If no [you don't like how the Government operates, and so on], then DO SOMETHING!

Regarding the FDA, I've already posted these links under this post, and I do not intend to spam, but I think education and giving people self-awareness is a good thing, so here it goes:

1) https://tomwoods.com/ep-1124-death-by-regulation-the-truth-a...

2) https://tomwoods.com/ep-1196-a-market-alternative-to-the-fda...

3) https://www.nytimes.com/1989/09/10/business/exposing-the-fda...

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