Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lol « participating for costs » is a staple of American healthcare and it’s 10x more expensive than not participating for cost literally every other country :-). And then you get the usual people not going to the doctor when they’re sick (staple of american life) and infecting everyone.
Exactly "participating for costs" is exactly what is destroying the American health system. And it's what sets it appart from most other developed nations where helthcare works. The idea that this is what is missing, is one of the worst conclusions I've ever seen.
India Aims for the World's Biggest Health Care Overhaul
71–80 of 83 posts
Re: India Aims for the World's Biggest Health Care Overhaul
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is this so hard to understand? Why would 1.3 billion people want $7,200 in coverage at once? If that happens then it's a mega catastrophe of proportions that the entire World would not be prepared to bear. That would also mean the end of the World as we know it. So let's be realistic shall we? Of those 1.3 billion people hardly 0.1% of them might fall ill in any given year. That's 13 million people. That's still…
"hardly 0.1% of them might fall ill in any given year" is a very unrealistic assumption - is service is available (which is not universal in India at the moment, but is promised to be with this reform) the expected number of annual per capita doctors visits is at least 1 (OECD country average is 7, poorer countries get 1-2), not 0.001, a thousandfold difference. Not all people won't get ill in a given year, but a lar…
It's very realistic. Because if a 100 million people fell ill in India, we would have classified it as a national health emergency and the World would start taking notice. You are talking about bubonic plague level proportions. That is a world-wide emergency. That's the reason I say your numbers are absolutely ridiculous.
Stop being so blinded by numbers that you forget the human element behind it. The realistic number is somewhere in the range of what I said. Let's be sensible when talking such things.
> is service is available (which is not universal in India at the moment, but is promised to be with this reform) the expected number of annual per capita doctors visits is at least 1 (OECD country average is 7, poorer countries get 1-2), not 0.001, a thousandfold difference
Doctor visit is not the same as being eligible for $7,200 worth of coverage. In India, doctor visits are generally free unless you are visiting a really high profile doctor. It's not the USA where even the visit requires you to deposit hundreds of dollars in consultation fees.
> Not all people won't get ill in a given year, but a large portion does; it depends on how severe illnesses you count but it's 30-60%, not 0.1% or 1%; and some people (much more than 0.1%) get multiple illnesses in a single year.
I already gave you figures. 0.7 million are cancer patients per year in India. Cancer is classified as a critical illness. The cost for it is approximately $7000 dollars. $7,200 dollars is more than sufficient to cover the expenses. So you are totally wrong here. I don't understand how you can say it's 30-60% when the national statistics I linked to say 0.7 million are cancer patients per year (which is 0.0538% of India's population). Don't throw numbers in the air without some facts backing your claims. Considering cancer is one of the major critical illnesses I extrapolated that number to around 3.25 million people with critical illness. That is almost 5 times the cancer number stats put out by reputed source (http://cancerindia.org.in/statistics/).
> I'm arguing that on average people (all 1.3 billion of them) need much, much more than $1 of coverage each year. You don't need $7200 to treat common diseases, but many of them will need more than $1. For every person that needs $0 of coverage there will be one that needs more than $2.
That's the reason I talked about specific critical illnesses like cancer/stroke etc. I guess you decided to skip that entirely.
> If the estimate was comparable to $10 per person (so, excluding private insurance, roughly $10 billion total not $1-2 billion), then it might be worth starting a discussion about the details and how much what costs. But $1/person/year is so ridiculous that it's off the charts.
Sorry to say but it's your argument that is ridiculous because it stems from the fact that $1/person/year is the coverage when it's not. No insurance company works that way in any part of the World. Seriously, learn how insurance works first.
Re: India Aims for the World's Biggest Health Care Overhaul
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
No they won't. You aren't discounting those who already hold health insurance because it's a deduction for their tax returns. So for such people it's an investment. You are also not discounting those who are covered by their employers group health insurance. Not to forget those people who already have enough to spend for private healthcare. Not all 1.3 billion people in India are poor who depend on government health…
These factors don't need to be explicitly discounted because they are far too small to matter. The number of people covered by various private group health insurance in India is something like 100 million, so it's just a 10% difference when we're talking about order-of-magnitude differences. Yes, not all 1.3 billion are poor and depend on government health insurance, but the numbers are so outrageously off that it do…
Coverage is only provided for those who fall ill. Only critical illnesses require the entirety of $7,200. The rest of the diseases are treatable in the $1 to $200 range. The government hospitals already provide free treatment for a majority of these diseases. It's the critical illness treatment which has become a burden for the government hospitals as they don't have either the equipment or the staff or the infrastructure to cater to the patients. That's where this insurance will come handy. Instead of spending $100 billion dollars bringing the government hospitals to match state of the art private hospitals just reuse the existing private hospital infrastructure and subsidize the illness instead of wasting money on infrastructure/equipment/staffing. I can't understand how this doesn't make sense? This even lessens the load on the government hospitals so they can focus their energies treating curable diseases and leave the critical illness part to be handled by private hospitals.
Trust me, we can argue however much we want, but the poor of India see this and understand the significance of this move. Many poor cancer patients (especially those with mouth cancer due to smoking tobacco/chewing gutka) who couldn't get any treatment in free government hospitals due to lack of infrastructure/equipment/staffing can get themselves treated in state of the art private hospitals. And the poor are not beggars to misuse the scheme by claiming insurance for even the simplest of diseases. They will get themselves treated in government hospitals if the particular disease can be cured for free because that's where they are comfortable going (many build rapport with the government doctors too). Only if it's not possible, would they approach the private hospitals. You need to be on the ground and understand the poor of India to be able to think beyond numbers. If numbers is all you see then there is nothing further to argue about.
Re: India Aims for the World's Biggest Health Care Overhaul
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. Business Ranking "India climbs global business ranking. But it's not that simple" https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/31/news/economy/india-ease-of-... 2012 - 132 2013 - 132 2014 - 134 2015 - 142 2016 - 130 2017 - 130 2018 - 100 http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/india Samsung is also opening the world's largest Mobile phone manufacturing plant in India. That's a tremendous investment from them. 2. Corru…
Care to also publish rankings of the country over the years in freedom of press, law and order, mob violence, transparency, economic growth, journalists/writers murdered, appointments/shortages of RTI commissioners, RTI rejection rate, lack of lokayuktas, appointments/shortages of judiciary by govt etc. (or just look it up for yourself) > There have also been tremendous investments from the government in green tech,…
20 GW in 2018 with process falling 15% year on year can lead to a sudden increase. Let's pass judgement in 2021 when things are clearer.
Re: India Aims for the World's Biggest Health Care Overhaul
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about freedom of press as an example (World Press Freedom Index) 2018: 138 2017: 136 2016: 133 A good rule to follow, formulate an opinion after you gain enough facts to argue the other side, else you'll keep seeing only what you want to see.
You can't pick one index to your convenience and even then, I have looked at the website - https://rsf.org/en/india which I think is your basis of the rankings. Their headline was > Deadly threat from Modi’s nationalism Scaremonger much? I don't buy the fact that in the Internet age, you have to be some reporter to write against the government policies. If someone has any groundbreaking evidence against anything wron…
We don't need reporters anymore because we have the internet? :)
I won't engage further. You're free to believe what you want, but here's what I would like to say - You can interpret the current situation however you want, but others might disagree. And, anyone that disagrees with you or criticizes the govt, isn't necessarily the opposition or the enemy. - The govt is not a victim of opposition's hate, opposition and press are free to and supposed to criticize the govt, and they always have.
Re: India Aims for the World's Biggest Health Care Overhaul
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Care to also publish rankings of the country over the years in freedom of press, law and order, mob violence, transparency, economic growth, journalists/writers murdered, appointments/shortages of RTI commissioners, RTI rejection rate, lack of lokayuktas, appointments/shortages of judiciary by govt etc. (or just look it up for yourself) > There have also been tremendous investments from the government in green tech,…
Did you deliberately change GW to KW? 20 GW in 2018 with process falling 15% year on year can lead to a sudden increase. Let's pass judgement in 2021 when things are clearer.
Typo, and HN doesn't allow me to update it now. Anyway, my point was that in the past 4 years we achieved 20GW and we expect to achieve 80GW in the next 4 years.
Re: India Aims for the World's Biggest Health Care Overhaul
#77>> which would offer the poorest half of India health insurance to apply toward private hospitals This is a terrible idea. Did they learn nothing from the failure of Health Care in the United States? When insurance pays for everything patients stop worrying about costs, which in turn causes hospitals and drug companies to raise prices. This is what has caused Health Care to fail from a costs point of view. The soluti…
There's also the problem that there isn't any price transparency in the US health care system. You literally can't find out how much many procedures cost ahead of time.
Re: India Aims for the World's Biggest Health Care Overhaul
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. Business Ranking "India climbs global business ranking. But it's not that simple" https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/31/news/economy/india-ease-of-... 2012 - 132 2013 - 132 2014 - 134 2015 - 142 2016 - 130 2017 - 130 2018 - 100 http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/india Samsung is also opening the world's largest Mobile phone manufacturing plant in India. That's a tremendous investment from them. 2. Corru…
Care to also publish rankings of the country over the years in freedom of press, law and order, mob violence, transparency, economic growth, journalists/writers murdered, appointments/shortages of RTI commissioners, RTI rejection rate, lack of lokayuktas, appointments/shortages of judiciary by govt etc. (or just look it up for yourself) > There have also been tremendous investments from the government in green tech,…
Furthermore you’re behaving as if having ambitious goals for a government is bad. I would rather have an optimistic, ambitious government that gets somewhere near the goal than a lazy “realistic” government that always ends up underestimating itself.
Reaching a goal isn’t necessarily as important as simply producing a better product. Having a high expectations is a prerequisite to creating a great product. There are, again, so many improvements that India has achieved recently.
Re: India Aims for the World's Biggest Health Care Overhaul
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly "participating for costs" is exactly what is destroying the American health system. And it's what sets it appart from most other developed nations where helthcare works. The idea that this is what is missing, is one of the worst conclusions I've ever seen.
My understanding is that there are several countries in the EU where you are expected to pony up money for healthcare. It's usually token amounts, but the fact they do that indicates that's not what's "destroying the American health system".
Re: India Aims for the World's Biggest Health Care Overhaul
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are you talking about? There are very few metrics that you can list that show a decline. So how about you show me the data for decline.
How about freedom of press as an example (World Press Freedom Index) 2018: 138 2017: 136 2016: 133 A good rule to follow, formulate an opinion after you gain enough facts to argue the other side, else you'll keep seeing only what you want to see.
Rather than being prentious and accuse others of being half asses, or ignorant, I suggest you only stick to facts as you claim you do.
I am most definitely not denying that everything is perfect. There are things that have gotten worse, however the benefits of what have gotten better are far more tangible, real, and affect daily life than this one data point you provided. There are others which are more tangible that India has faultered on, but again the good far outweighs the bad.