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Watch What Happens When You Push Away Skilled Immigrants

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Re: Watch What Happens When You Push Away Skilled Immigrants

#71
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Zealand's Skilled Migrant Category, Canada's Express Entry, and Australia's 186 & 187 visas are the focus of my hopes right now. Requirements are similar. Even if I get an independent visa, I still need a job to pay for food and shelter. My current savings would only last about 2 months, far too short for the 5 years of residency to get citizenship there.

> My current savings would only last about 2 months, far too short for the 5 years of residency to get citizenship there. Right, but this will help you get there legally first, which gets you through the first hurdle. Then you obviously need to find a job there.

During my travels I visited Japan for 2 months and the Netherlands for 1 month, moving there before finding a job.

It was an expensive mistake. Being physically present didn't help me at all, and companies still ignored my emails. Meanwhile I was busy trying to figure out how to eat, where to go to church, where to buy a bicycle, etc. so I had less available time to apply for jobs. Don't move before getting a job offer.

Re: Watch What Happens When You Push Away Skilled Immigrants

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given that the low-end rate has gone down significantly throughout the 3 decades that I have been alive, how do we on the left reason that immigration is not a factor? Because we can point directly to the tax policy changes that are largely responsible, starting with the Reagan-era tax burden shift on to work. And because we on the left don't deny that immigration is not a factor, but instead that immigration polic…

Thanks for this thoughtful response. I definitely feel like you get my struggle. I do understand the impact of Reagan-era economic policies and don’t accept that America would be capable of thriving despite a lot of immigration. But, I guess I don’t understand why this convo isn’t articulated. Supply-and-demand of the labor market is super simple and it seems pretty obvious that immigration would end up being a scape…

> But, I guess I don’t understand why this convo isn’t articulated.

In part, because the political “dialogue” in this country isn't a dialogue, it's a propaganda battle where on every issue it is a battle to control the framing, largely with the aim of mobilizing each sides base while alienating the other, not coming to some kind of common consensus.

In part, because the left viewpoint on the economics is not the dominant view of either major party; the (still, arguably barely) dominant faction of the Democratic Party is economically center-right.

> But for some reason people on the left seem to act like this contention doesn’t exist. They just talk about how terrible the border and ICE is; both of which have been awful for many years

Even given the preceding, that's not really true: the left (and Democrats more broadly) do offer much more specific policy criticisms than that, and those didn't all originate under this President. (Though under the immediate preceding one, those positions were often shared with the President though not the Congressional majority, see DACA/DREAM Act.) Obviously, they've become more intense and higher priority with a hostile administration engaging in policy more hostile to their desires.

> It’s nice that people care all of a sudden

People on the left don't care “all of a sudden”, though obviously the policy context has changed all of a sudden which has shifted the tone and focus of criticisms.

> but name-calling doesn’t address these rational claims of the opposition.

Electoral politics largely isn't about rational debate, and trying to make it so is often counterproductive, even if you are winning with the people that are listening for rational debate.

> It sounds like if we can just actually take the economics seriously for once then it would eliminate any decent ground to defend the immigration enforcements.

The left isn't against immigration enforcement so much as it is against the particular policies being enforced and the methods of enforcement.

But “decent ground” isn't, even if it should be, often what wins policy debates.

Re: Watch What Happens When You Push Away Skilled Immigrants

#73
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just made a claim too without any results let alone sources for those results.

So? I said the abuses have been long documented - and a quick Google search will bring up said documentation. I see no need to present sources and results - I'm not claiming anything as fact, just stating opinion in a comment.

Except you criticize the article for doing the same.

Re: Watch What Happens When You Push Away Skilled Immigrants

#74
post #9

Current policies will give more opportunities for Americans. Trump understands something that technology elites don't; the wealth pie is limited and you have to be deliberate in how you slice it and who you give those slices to.

Sure he's just got the allocations completely inverted.

Re: Watch What Happens When You Push Away Skilled Immigrants

#76

1. Infants are not automatically US citizen when born in the US 2. The US needs more highly qualified workers. How is the birthright changing that? (argument that every baby could be the next Einstein is not sufficient)

1. They are.

2. The US definitely needs more highly qualified skilled workers, and pretty much anyone to just keep the population where it is as a birth rate of 1.84 children per couple is below replenishment rate.

As for birthright citizenship, I agree, it's not a necessary part of a fair and reasonable immigration system. It's really only a new-world concept and it's declining in the new world too. Australia had and then rolled it back. I'm neutral on this. Obviously I don't think it should be taken away from anyone who already has it, that's a dangerous line to tow, but I wouldn't be opposed to birthright permanent residency with a path to citizenship should the individual choose to immigrate on their own, or of course if they'd otherwise be left stateless.

Hong Kong for instance doesn't afford citizenship to anyone not ethnically Chinese meaning HKIDs are the end of the road for anyone not Chinese.

Re: Watch What Happens When You Push Away Skilled Immigrants

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the entire value a tech worker creates is properly captured by their salary, sure. But if that were the case then no one would bother with spending the insane amounts of money it costs to get qualified foreign labor. Talent is global and the difference a skilled individual adds to a company has a multiplicative effect.

You seem to assume that foreign labour can only be used if imported to the US. That is not the case, consider remote talent.

Remote talent pours those same resources into another location to its benefit. Which is fine for the other countries; not so good for the US's position as a tech hotspot.

Re: Watch What Happens When You Push Away Skilled Immigrants

#78

I find many popular arguments about immigration lack nuance and are sometimes purposefully misleading. I'm not fan of Trump, but he wants to institute a 'points based' system, along the lines of what Canada or Australia has. Immigrants to Canada tend to be fairly educated, more so than those coming to the us partly due to this policy, partly due to the irregular migrants coming to the US. The article's title and open…

[A] special clause in the bill could actually take away points if the applicant tries to bring his or her spouse...Drafters of the proposal said that it was modeled on similar systems used by Canada and Australia. But this is actually not how other countries treat family members under their points systems. In the five countries we examined that currently use similar points systems–Australia, Canada, Hong Kong, South…

I understand the various points-based systems will have differences but I don't think it's worth splitting hairs over. Generally a points-based system will move the needle towards those who are more qualified.

Re: Watch What Happens When You Push Away Skilled Immigrants

#79
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is absolutely wrong. It states Canadian immigration scores you out of 67 points, that system has been phased out in 2017, before this article was written. Also, Canada absolutely gives weightage to your spouse's age, English/French skills, education etc. up to 40 points.

The system with the 67-point pass mark very much still exists: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=692&... The Express Entry system introduced in 2015 (not 2017) is just a change to who can apply to the system indicated above and the other systems integrated with Express Entry, rather than being first come first served. It doesn't determine approval. (Though for the provincial nomination programs,…

Yes, it was 2015, typo.

Express Entry amalgamated FSW/T and CEC streams and digitized the process, for which you used to have to send paper applications before. The Quartz link made 67 points the centrepoint of the article, which that is the first step, you still have to enter yourself into Express Entry pool, where spousal points are calculated separately and in fact does impact your final points tally.

Re: Watch What Happens When You Push Away Skilled Immigrants

#80
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those 40 points come out of your own points if you have a spouse. You score more without a spouse than with a spouse. Trump's proposal is exactly the same as Canada's in principle, except we don't the points being assigned under Trump's program. Also, under Quebec's new proposal if single you need to score 50 points, and with spouse you need 59 points. Spousal qualifications are absolutely weighted in. This is not th…

For Quebec's system, the spousal increase to the threshold is not a change from the system before August 2, and as I noted it's a slight impact. Everything is weighed less for the spouse. A less qualified spouse will still not usually hurt. I mentioned August 2 since I don't remember whether children helped in the old system under which I applied; I did remember how spouses affected things, i.e. no significant change…

Express Entry nominations have not been rolled out by all provinces, e.g. Alberta. Provincial nominations are limited to usually 5500-6000 per year. Provincial nominations for EE have a higher entry bar to get into than the usual provincial nominee programs.

Um, Express Entry absolutely determines the outcome for FSWP . 67 points is the first step, you still have to get accepted through Express Entry pool scoring points out of 1200. Where spouse absolutely impacts your final points tally. If your profile is not in the Express Entry pool, your FSWP is not getting accepted.

I have done 3 paper CEC/FSWP applications, 4 Express Entry and 7 Provincial nominations for Quebec (Grad PEQ), Ontario, Alberta and BC combined.

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