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France bans smartphone use in schools

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Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#71

Post by chriswarbo »

swiley wrote: post #7

I'm really not sure how I feel about highschoolers having phones. On the one hand, not having one seems like it could cause isolation and practical/logistical problems. On the other hand, the whole point of most of the smartphone ecosystem is to manipulate people and these people are especially prone to that. Highschoolers therefore should be only allowed to use completely free (as in freedom) community maintained so…

> On the one hand, not having one seems like it could cause isolation

That may be true for banning individuals, who might end up excluded from activities everyone else is doing. A blanket ban would have different effects, since it's excluding everyone, who can find other activities (or ways around the ban) to do together.

You're definitely right about practical/logistical problems though.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#72

Post by TremendousJudge »

truncj wrote: post #64
cube2222 wrote: post #56

My thought as a University student and only a year ago - high school student: Phones are a really great learning aid. There are also people who prefer to listen and participate more actively in lessons instead of writing down everything written on the whiteboard, with a smartphone they can just take a picture of the whiteboard. Smartphones are the smallest thesaurus and translator you can get. Smartphones can graph o…

This sounds like a persuasive essay just lists facts without researching the benefit/detriment of each. Taking a picture of a whiteboard is not the same as writing/typing notes.. and no, teacher's don't have the luxury of failing kids due to ignoring phone rules (unfortunately).

there are few things as useless as taking a picture of the whiteboard

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#73

Post by vorpalhex »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #57
vorpalhex wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't need to read the news every day As someone who votes, you should read the news on a very regular basis. Ideally that means reading a variety of news sources from a variety of political leanings.

> As someone who votes, you should read the news on a very regular basis. Ideally that means reading a variety of news sources from a variety of political leanings. Why? To poison your mind with lies and misrepresentations of reality? To get distracted from important issues and spend lots of time following irrelevant dramas? Mainstream news has negative informational value these days.

Obviously you have the special truth from the only true source, and all news media is fake except for the ones who hawk gold pills and testosterone boosters - they know how it really is.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#74

Post by Symbiote »

skate22 wrote: post #61
Pulcinella wrote: post #43

My thoughts as a High School teacher: I have tried[1] to allow students to have their phones, teach them to use their phones responsibly, etc. It doesn’t work. They are banned in my class. I’m just a single teacher with basically no budget. I can’t compete with giant corporations that spend millions on design, UX, UI, etc. [1] Also, technically trying to teach kids to use their phones responsibly (or even generically…

In college if i was goofing off on my phone during lecture I would likely pay for it on an exam. You could try silently writing down which days you saw a student on their phone & which days you taught the specific subject material. Then when students get it wrong on a test that you grade you can add a comment along the lines of "this was covered on day X when you were on your phone" You would also then have a nice re…

Except the general purpose of school is for the children to be educated, not to make a smart comment when they fail an exam.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#75

Post by jacknews »

cube2222 wrote: post #56

My thought as a University student and only a year ago - high school student: Phones are a really great learning aid. There are also people who prefer to listen and participate more actively in lessons instead of writing down everything written on the whiteboard, with a smartphone they can just take a picture of the whiteboard. Smartphones are the smallest thesaurus and translator you can get. Smartphones can graph o…

In European schools, students are generally not graded by the teacher durectly, but through tests (though the teachers produce reports to parents). Thus, the option for the teacher to dole out an F to phone (ab)users is not available.

Thankfully.

Personally I think the American system whereby your grades are dictated by your teacher is quite vulnerable to all kinds of issues, but maybe I misunderstand that system.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#76

Post by djaychela »

cube2222 wrote: post #56

My thought as a University student and only a year ago - high school student: Phones are a really great learning aid. There are also people who prefer to listen and participate more actively in lessons instead of writing down everything written on the whiteboard, with a smartphone they can just take a picture of the whiteboard. Smartphones are the smallest thesaurus and translator you can get. Smartphones can graph o…

AS someone who was a teacher at A-level (age 16-18) in the UK for 17 years until last year.... I think you may be right in the best case scenario, but my experience is that the number of pupils who use smartphones (or the wider internet) as such is vanishingly small. Most people don't have the mental discipline to use it for the amazing academic tool it could be, and the bright, shiny things of social media etc fritter away their attention. I don't think the last argument ('they'll talk anyway') holds much water - it's possible for pupils to look as if they are working but are actually on a phone; other forms of interaction are much more easily detected (two or more kids talking, etc).

I was made redundant from both my (part time) teaching jobs around this time last year (through no fault of my own or performance, I hasten to add!) and I have ZERO intention of ever going back - my (anecdotal, of course) experience of the education landcape and students' interest and behaviour (which I feel is significantly due to the attention-leeching effects of their constant exposure to smartphones) led the last 3/4 years to be a horrible experience that I wouldn't repeat if they paid me double what I was previously earning. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I am greatly concerned about the effect that such technology (and unmonitored use most of the time) is going to have on those who have been exposed to it since a very early age (who will be coming through the education system in the next 10 years or so).

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#77

Post by bkor »

chpmrc wrote: post #31
EliRivers wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphones and tablets are GREAT learning devices. My experience is certainly the opposite. I do all my best learning without smartphones and without tablets.

You prefer other devices, not everyone does. Most people nowadays own a smartphone but not a laptop. And books are arguably less engaging than apps for a generation that grew up not reading them (hard to swallow, since I'm an avid reader, but it's true).

In Netherlands they've been using all kinds of IT devices for 10+ years (depending on the school, etc). Recently a study was published which made clear that it doesn't benefit at all plus that books + notepad might be more beneficial. Cannot find the article about it.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#78

Post by djaychela »

Yoric wrote: post #28
chpmrc wrote: post #9

Typical prohibitionist mindset. Lots of people use X, we don't like X, we ban X instead of understanding how to properly and moderately integrate X into our lives. Smartphones and tablets are GREAT learning devices. If we keep blaming the ineptitude of teachers on devices the quality of education will never progress. EDIT: part of the education process is to teach kids how to use and not abuse these devices and when…

Would you allow students to come to class with their own TV and to watch it whenever they want? Because, in a school setting, that's exactly what phones and tablets are: distraction engines.

That's a great phrase - 'distraction engines' - which my stepkids will be sick of fairly quickly. Love the TV analogy, BTW.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#79

Post by malnourish »

andai wrote: post #68
jacknews wrote: post #3

Surprised they weren't banned already. How can a teacher droning about valence levels possibly compete with instagram feeds, and much more so for younger kids. Possibly even, aspects of smartphone use should be treated as a potential health risk, in the same ways as alcohol, tobacco, sugar, etc. (though not all of those are treated appropriately yet)

Re: sugar in schools: I am currently trying to break a sugar addiction and having more trouble than I had coming off several types of addictive drugs.

I've always wondered about this: How much is that a problem with letting go of sugar, and how much is it finding things that don't have sugar in them?

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#80

Post by berbec »

malnourish wrote: post #79
andai wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: sugar in schools: I am currently trying to break a sugar addiction and having more trouble than I had coming off several types of addictive drugs.

I've always wondered about this: How much is that a problem with letting go of sugar, and how much is it finding things that don't have sugar in them?

When I quit drinking, (1L vodka/day for years cold turkey), I craved sugar like nothing else in the world. If removing sugar from your diet is anything like getting sober, I feel GP's pain.
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