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Evolving Floorplans

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Re: Evolving Floorplans

#71

Post by JetSetWilly »

tompccs wrote: post #65

His genetic examples look like European cities compared to the actual floor layouts, which are more like New World ones designed on a grid layout by central planners. Perhaps there's wisdom in allowing cities to grow organically/chaotically after all.

There is, it has been proven that on average, if you select two points in European cities the average distance by road, number of junctions etc is smaller than two randomly selected points in a grid system.

It seems like a grid system is superior if you have no knowledge of the city, but a "organic" european layout is functionally superior assuming people always choose perfect routes.

Re: Evolving Floorplans

#72

Post by googlemike »

hammock wrote: post #55

These types of exercises are useful not to find their solutions, but to reveal the shortcomings of the model used to create them - and our thus our own mental models! Building design is older than humankind, and there's tens of millenia worth of reasons why they are the way they are. But those reasons aren't always clear. Essentially modern floor plan design is the output of a black-box machine (human) learning algor…

How can building design be older than humankind?

Re: Evolving Floorplans

#73

Post by mprovost »

mrfusion wrote: post #43

On a related note I’d love a way to optimize kitchen layout. What items to store in cabinets and drawers to minimize dishwasher unloading time, optimize cooking.

You'd like the Frankfurt kitchen which was inspired by Taylor's time and motion studies for industry. In 1926!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_kitchen

Re: Evolving Floorplans

#74

Post by dsr_ »

googlemike wrote: post #72
hammock wrote: post #55

These types of exercises are useful not to find their solutions, but to reveal the shortcomings of the model used to create them - and our thus our own mental models! Building design is older than humankind, and there's tens of millenia worth of reasons why they are the way they are. But those reasons aren't always clear. Essentially modern floor plan design is the output of a black-box machine (human) learning algor…

How can building design be older than humankind?

Many of the social insects -- ants and termites and bees, especially -- build "buildings" which have heterogenous rooms specialized for different purposes.

Genetic algorithms, indeed.

Re: Evolving Floorplans

#75

Post by wjnqx »

burfog wrote: post #69
jethro_tell wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of structure would you use a concrete without a tensile support like rebar or steel of some kind? How would that stand up in an earthquake?

Rebar makes earthquakes worse, as seen in California's freeway collapse. The rebar depends on the concrete to prevent corrosion, but that is only good for roughly 50 years. Rust causes expansion, which cases cracking. The outer concrete falls away, leaving rebar to get crushed under the load. The obvious fixes, like stainless steel rebar, have thermal expansion coefficients that don't match concrete, so instead you g…

Would you be able to provide links to modern structures built with the methods you're describing or research about them? Does this conservative design resemble something like Gaudi's Sagrada Familia, or is that the wrong way to think about it?

Re: Evolving Floorplans

#76

Post by hammock »

googlemike wrote: post #72
hammock wrote: post #55

These types of exercises are useful not to find their solutions, but to reveal the shortcomings of the model used to create them - and our thus our own mental models! Building design is older than humankind, and there's tens of millenia worth of reasons why they are the way they are. But those reasons aren't always clear. Essentially modern floor plan design is the output of a black-box machine (human) learning algor…

How can building design be older than humankind?

I imagine there were hominids building shelters before homo sapiens. And they probably took cues from animals.

Re: Evolving Floorplans

#77

Post by JeffreyKaine »

googlemike wrote: post #72
hammock wrote: post #55

These types of exercises are useful not to find their solutions, but to reveal the shortcomings of the model used to create them - and our thus our own mental models! Building design is older than humankind, and there's tens of millenia worth of reasons why they are the way they are. But those reasons aren't always clear. Essentially modern floor plan design is the output of a black-box machine (human) learning algor…

How can building design be older than humankind?

Weaver birds, beavers, bees, ants, termites, etc... Hell, we could even call shelled animals like snails and turtles mobile buildings :P

Re: Evolving Floorplans

#78

Post by setr »

ghein wrote: post #51
eadmund wrote: post #48

The author describes the results as 'irrational,' but I'd hardly agree with the negative connotation of that word: I think that the generated floorplans look lovely , and I wish that I'd gone to school somewhere like that. Far from irrational, I think it's quite rational to try to design buildings to be pleasant to live in, not just easy to draw with a straightedge. Also, the generated rooms look much like the sort o…

The reward function was horrible! You need good sightlines for the kids, room for desks, and need to ensure kids aren't isolated in a corner. Plus light (not just to a small courtyard), ability to escape in case of fire or other emergency!!!!!!! and for minimal noise intrusion from other classrooms. Minimal space and building material are just not the right constraints and speak to absolute ignorance of the actual pr…

it seems like it speaks more to the disinterest in providing an actual solution. The article is providing a possible route to finding a solution; not giving it. I mean he literally only optimizes on three parameters: windows, escape routes, and traffic usage.

He even clearly states his goals: The creative goal is to approach floor plan design solely from the perspective of optimization and without regard for convention, constructability, etc. The research goal is to see how a combination of explicit, implicit and emergent methods allow floor plans of high complexity to evolve.

Nowhere does he claim this is an implementable solution, or meant to be one... just an interesting one, given a set of priorities.

Re: Evolving Floorplans

#79

Post by ghaff »

yoz-y wrote: post #8

I've been in a few apartments that had novelty floor plans without right angles. All of them were terrible. Granted I have not been in one owned by somebody rich or skilled enough to only have custom made furniture.

I used to go to the IBM Somers campus semi-regularly (IM Pei pyramid-shaped buildings essentially.) It was filled with these weirdly shaped conference and other rooms that made pretty bad use of space.

Re: Evolving Floorplans

#80

Post by dsr_ »

cmyr wrote: post #61
kuon wrote: post #53

All non square rooms I experienced where terrible to place furniture.

Square furniture, I presume?

The alternative to a cultural standard is custom pieces. In this case, the cultural standard is right angles. It could have been 60 degree angles and we would all think hexagonal rooms are ideal.

Chairs, tables, desks, bookcases, shelving systems, and all the things that go on top of them. Paper. Boxes. Books.

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