150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees • Hacker News Board

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#71

Post by wetpaws » Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 9:21 PM UTC

sigfubar wrote: post #28

wetpaws wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience companies do not lay off people, it's a huge legal headache, usually people change jobs on their own. I agree about short leash though, it's really bad, although manageable on H1B. The people on L1 are who are trully screwed up.

Are you high? Layoffs - and individual firings - happen all the time. The dirty secret of corporate America is that performance reviews (and even supposedly innocent constructs such as JIRA and other project management software) are really a pretext to firing someone. A firing for poor performance isn’t a significant legal risk if the alleged transgressions are documented in detail.

I specially mentioned "in my experience".

I personally know a lot of lazy or borderline incompetent engineers, (some of them even went through PIP) who do thrive in corporate environment and it is much easy for corporate just to keep them on payroll. This is especially typical for software industry. This is anecdotal experience and may vary from company to company or even from team to team.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#72

Post by fzeroracer » Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 9:23 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #64

scarejunba wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Weird and here I thought a path to citizenship had broad Republican support, they just want it tied to stronger checks on who enters. But keep winning votes and changing minds by calling your opposition racists and bigots. That will win your votes.

How do you feel about separating families at the border? Because as part of the Republican's push for 'stronger checks', it does nothing to solve the current absolutely abhorrent treatment of people seeking asylum in the US.

I'll consider not calling them racists and bigots when their policies stop being the policies of racists and bigots.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#73

Post by xellisx » Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 9:26 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #6

This is one of the enormous penalties we as a nation have to pay because neither of our political parties actually wants to solve the illegal immigration issue. Republicans get to use ‘illegal immigrants taking jobs’ as a stick to beat democrats with, and progressives use cries of racism to rally support amongst Latino voters. Meanwhile anyone who espouses common sense ideas such as reforming our immigration policy g…

'Taking our jobs' is an outright lie, since the opertunity to use undocumented workers as a way to spend a lot less on a given task/job and have to hide that fact, so they also have skip out on taxes for said work. My opinion is that the people claiming this use this statement to missdirect the core issues becuase they are the one giving jobs to non citizens becuase they are greedy.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#74

Post by mavelikara » Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 9:28 PM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #63

Isn't it a false assumption that immigrant workers should eventually get Green Cards? The whole point of the H1B system is to temporarily fill shortages of skilled workers, not to be a path for permanent immigration.

The point of H-1B is to both fill a skilled job temporarily, and as a path to permanent immigration. This is called _dual intent_ technically.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#75

Post by coldtea » Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 9:28 PM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #68

coldtea wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kind of already made the parent's point for them. You didn't call it out explicitly, but you're already implying they are racist. > Second: not even relevant to the issue at hand. There is, to first approximation, exactly zero undocumented immigration among "Indian immigrants with advanced degrees" so I'm having a very, very hard time imaging how this is an "enormous penalty" we have to pay for failing to solve t…

He was making an inherently disingenuous claim that anyone arguing for immigration reform is called a racist. I have discussed with people the issues in our immigration system and ways to fix it and not once have I been called racist. Whenever I see someone make that claim, in my experience it's because they've been in favor of racist policies and when called out on it, tend to try and shift the argument into people…

>He was making an inherently disingenuous claim that anyone arguing for immigration reform is called a racist.

He was making a claim based on his experience with people asking for the kind of reform he'd like to see (e.g. stricter rules).

In casual conversation absolute statements ("anyone") are not to be taken at face value, but (through the principle of charity) as the person meaning "in many -or most- cases".

>Whenever I see someone make that claim, in my experience it's because they've been in favor of racist policies and when called out on it

One can be an isolationist ("no more immigration", "we have enough people already", "priority to local workers and building a local skilled workforce as opposed to importing cheaper foreign labor") without being motivated by racial concerns -- and yet in many cases they will still be labelled a racist.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#76

Post by mavelikara » Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 9:34 PM UTC

throwaway12122 wrote: post #53

oculusthrift wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not being able to swarm into another country is equivalent to slavery?

I have been riding taxis for the last 1 month because DMV refuses to renew my license until my work permit (visa) extension is approved. Nearly half of the drivers I met were from another continent. They are here legally and can work and live here without fear. But, just because I am from India, I cannot. I have to constantly live in fear of one day being told to go back. My employer asked me to go back to India 2-3…

Let me guess - you are in California, rt? California DMV is an absolute peach in this respect. They won't issue you an extension to your license while you wait for your H-1B extension. But if you are in California illegally, they have no problem handing you a license! Some California cities actually fight for the right to harbor illegal immigrants. But a legal immigrant waiting for an extension paperwork - sorry.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#77

Post by fzeroracer » Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 9:47 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #75

fzeroracer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was making an inherently disingenuous claim that anyone arguing for immigration reform is called a racist. I have discussed with people the issues in our immigration system and ways to fix it and not once have I been called racist. Whenever I see someone make that claim, in my experience it's because they've been in favor of racist policies and when called out on it, tend to try and shift the argument into people…

> He was making an inherently disingenuous claim that anyone arguing for immigration reform is called a racist. He was making a claim based on his experience with people asking for the kind of reform he'd like to see (e.g. stricter rules). In casual conversation absolute statements ("anyone") are not to be taken at face value, but (through the principle of charity) as the person meaning "in many -or most- cases". > W…

To use your own argument, I was also making a claim from experience that in general, whenever I see someone making that argument they tend to be racist or at least ignorant as to the history of the United States.

And in most scenarios when I've had to argue against isolationists they tend to ignore issues such as Americans refusing to work in certain labor sectors that illegal immigrants tend to work (and be abused without employers being punished, see: farm work) the way we treat immigrants right now (especially those seeking asylum) and so forth which ends up leading to a root motivation of racism rather than any actual practical reasons.

You've also managed to paint them with the stereotypical 'they took our jobs' mindset which, well, tends to thrive in more xenophobic communities.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#78

Post by abc_lisper » Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 9:47 PM UTC

throwaway12122 wrote: post #51

cletus wrote: post #33

So this is the result of several factors that are at odds with each other. 1. There is no per-country quota on H1Bs 2. There is a per-country quota on EB-1/2/3 GCs 3. And this is crux of the problem: H1Bs are issued indiscriminately, most problematically to so-called bodyshops. There are various proposals to fix the immigration backlog. There's one bill that would get rid of per-country quotas. I wonder what that wou…

Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? Why is nobody talking about the 100 thousand Indian students who come to US every year? Who is employing them? These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. They go through lengths to stay in US. They will settle for low salary so that they don't have to leave the country. Literally every scam I saw in H1B is from body shop…

> Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that?

They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp...

> These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system.

Right, the startups in bay area, good groups at Apples, Googles and Facebooks of the world are filled with people from Infosys ;)

>Literally every scam I saw in H1B is from body shops in US

That's partially true; I will let it slide

I understand you are frustrated, but you are barking up the wrong tree. The trouble is the easy jobs i.e, low-skilled in high-tech, are already filled. For example, see clouts of Infosys employees in some US companies. These days, people have two options, be really good at what they do, or find a clout to stick to. May be you had a hard time sticking to the Infosys clout(I am not surprised, given that you like to think). Don't blame it on others. If anything, most of the technically competent desi people in US have a US degree.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#79

Post by rohit2412 » Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 9:51 PM UTC

UncleEntity wrote: post #69

rohit2412 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these are good discussions to be had, maybe we should have a single global democratic secular government too. But in no way is the biases or diarciminations in a "fair" merit based system a justification for the discrimination based on country of birth, like in the current system.

Actually, it does sound fair to me -- or at least as fair as it can get. Individually it may suck if you come from a country with a large population like China or India but overall it gives people from all over the globe the chance to emigrate without having to directly compete with the large numbers of visa seekers from these countries. I honestly can't think of a more egalitarian immigration policy.

So, say I break India into North India and South India as different countries, that doubles the visa the people there receive. What changed? How about Breaking India down into a hundred different countries? Did we increase the visas a hundred times?

EU is a unified political and economic entity, with individual states having well defined freedom. Just like a federation. India is like that, so is USA. So, does EU also qualify for a combined 7% cap as a united entity?

Discrimination and limits on the country of birth is such a stupid policy, unless you really think that a person born in Tuvalu should have 130,000 times higher chance of a green card than a person born in India.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#80

Post by rohit2412 » Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 9:53 PM UTC

cfadvan wrote: post #66

rohit2412 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's how you are discriminating on the basis of geographical area of birth. Why isn't the system oblivious to one's country of origin?

The idea is to give people from all over the world an equal shot, not to just skew in favor of one or two high population demographics. You can call that discrimination if you like, but in the “discriminating tastes” sense not the KKK sense. The alternative is to discriminate (in the negative sense) against people who don’t come from a population in the billions.

You didn't give everyone an equal shot. For some reason, you think a billion Indians deserve the same opportunity as 10,000 Tuvalu residents.