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U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

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Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#71

Post by jadedhacker »

pm90 wrote: post #28
aphextron wrote: post #14

Between this and Manafort being sent to jail, what a wonderful day for the DOJ. God I love this country so much.

The American Criminal Justice system rightly faces many criticisms, especially serious charges for being used against minorities. But yes, knowing that even the most powerful person in the country is not above the law and can and is prosecuted seriously, and that scammers like Holmes and Balwani are made to pay for their crimes.... this kind of thing is certainly what makes the US unique among nations.

Let's not get carried away. Canada and many if not all of the nations of the EU have a similar capability.

The US justice system sucks, let's not endow it with special "uniqueness". However, I am happy that corporate criminals are facing some penalties for their activities that could harm the public.

EDIT: Also, just because after waiting years and years, we see one or two criminal executives go through the Justice system we shouldn't get too excited. Companies lie and cheat the public all day, that's how they get so rich. The system has to produce one or two examples of something approximating justice every now and again basically to forestall revolution. The poor go to jail, the rich play games. A handful of prosecutions at the top doesn't change that dynamic.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#72

Post by maxander »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #8
maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Does anybody know if Theranos got started with at least an idea how to accomplish what they wanted to do? From what I have heard in interviews they started with the thought "Doing xxx would be super useful" but didn't have an approach for accomplishing this but instead took in money and tried to figure it out. It's like me saying "An antimatter drive would revolutionize space exploration" and starting to collect mone…

After the company launched professionals in the medical testing said it was impossible. I believe it was even posted to HN. They stated it was impossible to get the results they would get from the amount of blood given.

Any citations on that? In all the hullabaloo about Theranos I haven't heard that there were serious theoretical difficulties with what they were trying to do.

It would make me feel somewhat better about the whole mess to know this was the case. A successful Theranos would have been the best thing to come out of SV since the Apple II. It was sad to see it fail because of executives' delusions.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#73

Post by jonnycomputer »

mchannon wrote: post #43

I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives. This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then,…

you do the crime, you pay the time.

look, this society will fall apart if its only the poor who will pay the price for flouting the law.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#74

Post by madrox »

colordrops wrote: post #55
mchannon wrote: post #43

I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives. This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then,…

Re: "putting my worst enemy through", I don't know, this doesn't sound as bad as growing up in a war zone or even the ghetto, or getting waterboarded. Sounds like bureaucratic hell, but that's not even close to how bad things can get.

Well, hopefully you wouldn't want to put your worst enemy through those things, either.

Doesn't have to be the worst thing in the world for you to not wish it on someone.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#75

Post by wil421 »

mchannon wrote: post #43

I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives. This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then,…

I feel like you are playing the victim in this situation. Tone is hard to read through text so please forgive me if I misread your factual statements based on your own experience.

Both of these people fully deserve what’s coming to them. They lied to investors, they lied again to investors to keep the company afoalt, and above all they seriously jepordized medical results. It’s one thing to challenge status quo or even current regulations, a la Uber.

To mess with people’s health or their perception of it is completely wrong. We should not minimize the situation. Again, I cannot tell your tone. I’ve been following this for a while and it was obvious what would happen from the moment the whistle was blown.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#76

Post by mpweiher »

mchannon wrote: post #43

I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives. This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then,…

> Why the discrepancy? The 28th amendment hasn't been ratified yet.

What do you mean with that?

As far as I can tell, a 28th amendment hasn't even been proposed, although there is an urban legend about it that circulates in chain mails.

However...even that fantasy amendment is about equal treatment of citizens and members of congress...not sure how that would apply. The closest I can see is that Holmes's mother was a congressional staffer, but that's (a) not her, but her mother and (b) not an actual member of congress and (c) the laws aren't actually different here(?)

Puzzled.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#77

Post by [deleted] »

smallgovt wrote: post #66
mchannon wrote: post #43

I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives. This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then,…

Can you expand on your experience with indictments like this? It rings true to me that, in general, the average person would have much more compassion for 'bad' people in 'bad' situations if they could live a day in their shoes.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#78

Post by JauntTrooper »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #57
tptacek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did. They had two devices, the "Edison" and the "MiniLab". The Edison was intended to run a full panel of blood tests, both chemical and immunological assays, off a finger stick of blood. It was also intended to allow Theranos to function as its own lab. The Minilab was intended to run a full panel of blood tests I believe off a larger venous sample, and was expected to be marketed to existing labs (at this poin…

Do you believe Theranos could have beee successful company with less delusional management? (Honest question for a HN colleague for whom I have tremendous respect.)

I’ve never seen any evidence the underlying tech ever actually worked.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#79

Post by tptacek »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #57
tptacek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did. They had two devices, the "Edison" and the "MiniLab". The Edison was intended to run a full panel of blood tests, both chemical and immunological assays, off a finger stick of blood. It was also intended to allow Theranos to function as its own lab. The Minilab was intended to run a full panel of blood tests I believe off a larger venous sample, and was expected to be marketed to existing labs (at this poin…

Do you believe Theranos could have beee successful company with less delusional management? (Honest question for a HN colleague for whom I have tremendous respect.)

I don't know anything about this space; all I know comes from Carreyrou's book. Somewhere towards the middle, one of his sources observes that it's particularly hard to get a good sample from a finger stick --- something about damaged blood cells --- and you can find recent journal articles online suggesting that finger stick samples are inherently a lot less reliable than venous draws.

So, I sort of doubt it.

Re: U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Theranos’s Elizabeth Holmes, Ramesh Balwani

#80

Post by mchannon »

smallgovt wrote: post #66
mchannon wrote: post #43

I have been in this exact place before. For the two of them, this day will be just about the worst of their lives. This is ordinarily when hard-core criminals are taken into custody. If their experience was like mine, they had to show up in front of a magistrate with their lawyers, plead not guilty, then go to a dungeon for about 30 minutes while they get handcuffed, fingerprinted, mugshotted, and DNA-swabbed. Then,…

Can you expand on your experience with indictments like this? It rings true to me that, in general, the average person would have much more compassion for 'bad' people in 'bad' situations if they could live a day in their shoes.

[site redacted]

Eerily similar experience, down to the charges and the 11 counts.

I don't disagree, but the average person on a jury just does what the lady in the skirtsuit tells them to do so they can get out of there. Most people you want on a jury throw away their summons with zero risk to the practice.

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