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How the gig economy is making life harder for North American workers

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Re: How the gig economy is making life harder for North American workers

#71

Post by visarga »

knuththetruth wrote: post #43
bryanlarsen wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be the other away around. The gig economy should only be for people that have economic security. If you've got food & rent covered some other way but want some extra cash for luxuries, it's nice to have the option to pick up a few gigs. Much of the marketing for Uber drivers implies this fantasy. Maybe BI will make this fantasy a reality.

I think it’s UBI that’s the fantasy intended to prevent people from rebelling against this reality.

I actually consider gig economy as a possible replacement for UBI and jobs, but not in this centralised form (Uber, etc). Instead, communities or social networks of people without corporate jobs could become self reliant by working for each other, to solve the community needs on the whole. When corporations take our jobs we still have our needs and lots of free time - and our needs create jobs or gigs. We can still work to support ourselves.

Another step to enable self reliance would be the popularisation of new technologies such as open source software, 3d printing, solar power, cheap medical sensors, AI and DIY robotics (including agro-bots). Also, replacing banks with lending co-ops.

A small community on the size of a village or town could provide construction, schooling, medical services, servicing tools and machines and of course, agriculture - based on an internal marketplace of gigs or jobs. On the total the community could become more and more independent from the outside. Later on, when automation reaches maturity, the self supporting community could solve most of its needs without much human work and still be independent from the state (UBI) and large-corporation jobs.

Because companies are greedy and the state is corrupt, we need to take power back into our hands to prepare for the future.

Re: How the gig economy is making life harder for North American workers

#72

Post by tankerslay »

d4mi3n wrote: post #10
srslymissng wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to stop importing children and adults until we make sure all current citizens have jobs. Not everyone has cancer nor needs healthcare. The truly broke get it for free. Only thing not covered is cosmetic dentistry like non silver fillings and partial dentures and brand name medication.

I hear immigration come up a lot when healthcare does, but most homeless in the US are US citizens suffering from mental disorders. From the numbers I've read, immigrants tend to be the most economically productive compared to US citizens of the same economic class. That said, I think it'd be cheaper to provide preventative care for free than it would be to cover ER visits for the same number of uninsured people. Ten…

Our system is such a disaster, even "preventative care" can be a wolf in sheep's clothing. There's basically nothing to disincentivize doctors or pharma from aggressively selling drugs and procedures that give no benefit or even cause harm.

Re: How the gig economy is making life harder for North American workers

#73

Post by randycupertino »

aphextron wrote: post #16

Have you eaten in at a take out place lately? It's literally nothing but ageing, disheveled looking people who could barely operate a smartphone running in and out desperately, working either Uber Eats, Doordash, etc. stacking orders, getting stressed out over maybe making $3. It's the most depressing fucking thing I have ever seen. Maybe there's an argument to be made that these people are better off than they would…

Totally agree- have seen the vibe you describe above at numerous restaurants lately. The part that saddens me is the food recipient tends to take it out on the delivery person, "Food was cold!! ZERO STARS, NO TIP!!" when in actuality that person was given an impossible task- to deliver more food per hour than the laws of physics over time and distance would allow without teleportation.

I work in property development and also see this happening more and more frequently for contractor and appliance delivery people... instead of showing up to deliver your appliance, they mark you as "not home" or "unavailable" and skip attempting delivery or install altogether- that way they get to bring the stuff back to the warehouse, don't have to bother wasting time attempting to delivery it and the guy on the next shift has to deal with it.

Re: How the gig economy is making life harder for North American workers

#74

Post by [deleted] »

visarga wrote: post #71
knuththetruth wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s UBI that’s the fantasy intended to prevent people from rebelling against this reality.

I actually consider gig economy as a possible replacement for UBI and jobs, but not in this centralised form (Uber, etc). Instead, communities or social networks of people without corporate jobs could become self reliant by working for each other, to solve the community needs on the whole. When corporations take our jobs we still have our needs and lots of free time - and our needs create jobs or gigs. We can still w…

[deleted]

Re: How the gig economy is making life harder for North American workers

#75

Post by adrianratnapala »

jjoske wrote: post #35
vertexFarm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely a desperation career. Those always exist somewhere in any economy, and arguably there should be options available for desperate people, but the sheer volume of them is getting sad. It's like the US has a very poor, developing country double-exposed over an insanely wealthy and advanced one, both occupying the same territory. I'm not a historian but it strikes me as very strange and somewhat new to the…

Actually I suspect this has been somewhat the norm through out history, and the last 50-100 years have been some what odd.

Yes, but the "norm through out history" of course contains a lot of variations.

If you look at the UK or US during the Industrial Revolution (or China today) you will see poor people doing hard jobs and its all part of a huge economic build-up that makes everyone richer -- even if some people at the top could skim off fortunes.

But if you look at even broader history, such as Medieval Europe, or China and India for most of their history, you will still see industrious poor people. But there's little build-up -- just skimming by the people at the top.

I think modern India is somewhere in between those two modes. And sometimes I fear that western democracies are converging on the same in-between place, but from the other side.

Re: How the gig economy is making life harder for North American workers

#76

Post by beebmam »

flashman wrote: post #53
bryanlarsen wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be the other away around. The gig economy should only be for people that have economic security. If you've got food & rent covered some other way but want some extra cash for luxuries, it's nice to have the option to pick up a few gigs. Much of the marketing for Uber drivers implies this fantasy. Maybe BI will make this fantasy a reality.

> The gig economy should only be for people that have economic security. This would be a form of scabbing: taking jobs away from people that don't have economic security, to give disposable income to people that do .

The point is: No one should have economic insecurity when it comes to basic needs.

Re: How the gig economy is making life harder for North American workers

#77

Post by jessedhillon »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #60
flashman wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The gig economy should only be for people that have economic security. This would be a form of scabbing: taking jobs away from people that don't have economic security, to give disposable income to people that do .

Sorry, I wasn't clear; I was imagining a scenario where people weren't forced to choose crappy options. In that scenario people who needed economic security would choose options that actually gave it to them.

Serious question: in that world, who cleans the toilets?

Re: How the gig economy is making life harder for North American workers

#78

Post by DrScump »

toastermoster wrote: post #38
aphextron wrote: post #16

Have you eaten in at a take out place lately? It's literally nothing but ageing, disheveled looking people who could barely operate a smartphone running in and out desperately, working either Uber Eats, Doordash, etc. stacking orders, getting stressed out over maybe making $3. It's the most depressing fucking thing I have ever seen. Maybe there's an argument to be made that these people are better off than they would…

The wait staff at the restaurants usually don't get tipped on those kinds of orders either. And in most of the US the wait staff are only making $2.13 an hour or something like that.

Dude. CA minimum wage was more than that in the 1970s.

Re: How the gig economy is making life harder for North American workers

#80

Post by njarboe »

jessedhillon wrote: post #77
bryanlarsen wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I wasn't clear; I was imagining a scenario where people weren't forced to choose crappy options. In that scenario people who needed economic security would choose options that actually gave it to them.

Serious question: in that world, who cleans the toilets?

People getting paid $100k/year or $200k/year to do that job? Wouldn't it be cool if robots did most things and people could make good money doing the not-very-fun things the robots can't do.
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