Canon has sold its last film camera • Hacker News Board

Re: Canon has sold its last film camera

#71

Post by CarVac » Thu, May 31, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #17

snowwrestler wrote: post #2

I'm not surprised; in SLRs at least, Canon was never the dominant film camera company with the biggest customer base. Their SLR business did not catch up to and pass Nikon until the digital era. Canon's decision to put the AF motor in the lens helped them in verticals that use huge telephotos (sports, mostly). But their film cameras lagged Nikon in the sophistication of their AF, their automated exposure control, and…

What lead are you talking about? Canon's sensors were a running joke in the past 5 years comparing to Nikon (that used modified Sony sensors), manufactured in 3 generation-older process than their competition. Seeing e.g. D750 vs 5D MkIII in low-light was an eye opener. The only selling point of Canon remained their unique "pleasant" color mapping (and photographers getting stuck with older Canon-only lenses/strobes…

Until 2007 Canon was far ahead of the curve, and they held on to parity until around 2010-2011. Shoot any camera from 2005 other than a Canon and the images will definitely have compromised image quality except in the best conditions, yet a 5D from 13 years ago still produces superb image quality.

Only starting in 2010-2011 did they stagnate in image quality for a time.

Re: Canon has sold its last film camera

#72

Post by toomanybeersies » Thu, May 31, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

sofaofthedamned wrote: post #30

fetus8 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What credibility are Nikon or Canon missing? Both companies have a level of brand recognition unrivaled in the Photography world...? Only in recent years has Sony and maybe Fujifilm developed more respect due to some of their advancements where Nikon and Canon have lacked. Their DSLR's are market leaders still. Again, only in recent years have Mirrorless cameras have started to catch up with the DSLRs Nikon and Canon…

Good points, but the market is dying for DSLRs. I wince each time I use mine for the terrible wifi capability, the awful OS, etc. Why can't it be modernised? Because Canon and Nikon won't do it.

DSLRs have terrible WiFi because there is little demand for it.

SD cards are interchangeable, and slot into your computer for a reason.

Re: Canon has sold its last film camera

#73

Post by lb1lf » Thu, May 31, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

carbolite103 wrote: post #36

_ph_ wrote: post #26

This is not very surprising news - very recently I was wondering who still sells film cameras. Digital has surpassed film in almost every way. It is however quite scary to see technology completely go away which was so common not long ago, sometimes even completely lost as technology. You can’t buy proper Polaroid film any more, many other important film materials are completely gone as well.

As far as 35mm systems it's pretty much just Leica and Nikon at the moment, though I would imagine that Nikon is close to discontinuing their F6 flagship soon. Thankfully many 35mm cameras from the 70s and 80s are engineering masterpieces that will likely keep functioning well into the second half of this century. I just hope that companies will continue making film stocks for them.

Nikon even has - or at least had, until recently - two film cameras in their line-up.

The ‘because we can’ high-end F6 and the entry-level, manual just about everything FM10. (Though I think the current FM10 may be made by others under licence.)

I think Voigtländer may still make a 35mm rangefinder, too.

Re: Canon has sold its last film camera

#74

Post by mvexel » Thu, May 31, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

I'm seriously curious how they were able to sell that last inventory. Folks buying them for nostalgic reasons? Was there a real market left for top of the line film SLRs that wasn't served by the used camera market? You can get really good used ones for not very much money.

As a film shooter for 20+ years, I decided to break out my old Nikon FA and shoot a roll of film today to mark the occasion. (I still keep some in the fridge, Velvia 50 Daylight.) I wonder if the last place that would still develop slide film around here last time I needed film developed still does it. If they still take film, they probably ship it some place to get it developed rather than do it in-house like they used to.

Re: Canon has sold its last film camera

#75

Post by msbarnett » Thu, May 31, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

gnarcoregrizz wrote: post #34

bitL wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What lead are you talking about? Canon's sensors were a running joke in the past 5 years comparing to Nikon (that used modified Sony sensors), manufactured in 3 generation-older process than their competition. Seeing e.g. D750 vs 5D MkIII in low-light was an eye opener. The only selling point of Canon remained their unique "pleasant" color mapping (and photographers getting stuck with older Canon-only lenses/strobes…

Canon's sensors are decent, not a running joke as you say. But yeah they are known more for their colors (which is actually very important). Sony has destroyed the competition with their sensors though, and has really pushed the boundaries, at least until recently with that 50 mpix sensor that Canon released. Haven't researched that much though, I'm a few years behind myself. That said, Canon has historically been th…

The current rumor is that Canon (and possibly Nikon as well) will reveal their first mirrorless Full Frame camera body at or just prior to Photokina, which happens in late September.

Re: Canon has sold its last film camera

#76

Post by petepete » Thu, May 31, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

geerlingguy wrote: post #70

jacquesm wrote: post #48

My brother is a photographer and works in a camera store in his spare time - or the other way around, depending on when you ask him. He's spent a fortune over the years on film and cameras and switched to full digital a while ago. Recently he traded all his glass & bodies for new Sony gear, which he reckons outperforms both Canon and Nikon by a considerable margin. So if you're letting go of film and are in the marke…

> outperforms both Canon and Nikon by a considerable margin Not sure the metric, but SLRs still own the focusing crown for most action-based photography (though the mirrorless cameras are getting closer to being good at it). And exposure/metering is pretty much even, resolution is pretty even, ISO/noise gives an edge to Sony/Nikon over Canon, body/UX/comfort/grip gives an edge to Nikon/Canon over Sony (unless you hav…

> Not sure the metric, but SLRs still own the focusing crown for most action-based photography (though the mirrorless cameras are getting closer to being good at it)

I'm not sure this has been true since the Sony α9. Its autofocusing abilities are amazing, and that's coming from me - a Nikon fan and D500 owner. If I shot people rather than wildlife, I'd probably switch for the eye-AF alone.

Re: Canon has sold its last film camera

#77

Post by haxxorfreak » Thu, May 31, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

kakwa_ wrote: post #64

fetus8 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully Fuji's Instax line is alive and kicking, with their instant film readily available.

RIP 35mm Fujifilm Neopan. The 1600 was a great high ASA film.

So sad that they’re discontinuing Neopan ACROS 100 this fall too.

It’s still my favourite “modern” emulsion as it has a beautiful tone curve and amazing dynamic range if developed properly.

Re: Canon has sold its last film camera

#78

Post by bitL » Thu, May 31, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

CarVac wrote: post #71

bitL wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What lead are you talking about? Canon's sensors were a running joke in the past 5 years comparing to Nikon (that used modified Sony sensors), manufactured in 3 generation-older process than their competition. Seeing e.g. D750 vs 5D MkIII in low-light was an eye opener. The only selling point of Canon remained their unique "pleasant" color mapping (and photographers getting stuck with older Canon-only lenses/strobes…

Until 2007 Canon was far ahead of the curve, and they held on to parity until around 2010-2011. Shoot any camera from 2005 other than a Canon and the images will definitely have compromised image quality except in the best conditions, yet a 5D from 13 years ago still produces superb image quality. Only starting in 2010-2011 did they stagnate in image quality for a time.

I think the break point was around the release of D7000 (APS-C) which suddenly matched (and surpassed in dynamic range) the immensely popular 5D Mk II (FF), the default choice of videographers and fashion/wedding photographers. Around that time 5D Mk II (and to some extent 1D) dominated.

Re: Canon has sold its last film camera

#79

Post by ethagknight » Thu, May 31, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

jccalhoun wrote: post #3

"The model in question is the EOS-1V, which, incidentally, the company actually stopped making a full eight years ago. Since it has simply been selling out the rest of its stock, which, it seems, has finally depleted." That says a lot about how few they have been selling.

I don’t know that you can read between those lines, manufacturing one unit might cost nearly the same as manufacturing a million units, so might as well stock up despite waning sales based on where you think the obsolescence tail wraps up. For a momentous event like their last film camera sale, today may well have been their target date from 8 years back.

I have a cousin that works in Arrow Electronics’ obsolescence division, where they buy out final production lots in aging technologies (basically keep production lines going a few more months or years) with the intent to supply users of obsolete but operational systems with a fresh supply of parts and service. Lots of government and military equipment. lucrative business and there is an art to projecting future demand of obsolete tech. Not saying that this was Canon’s intent as well, but it was eye opening hearing him talk about his business.

Re: Canon has sold its last film camera

#80

Post by kristoffer » Thu, May 31, 2018, 5:42 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #39

sjm-lbm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Most advances Canon has made in SLRs (say, the AF upgrades the comment you are replying to above mentions) could be easily 'backported' to a film camera: in a real SLR, the sensor isn't exposed to light until the picture is ready to be taken and focus/exposure settings have already been decided, so it's not like those features rely on the digital image sensor in any way. The reason why Canon doesn't make a fil…

The reason why AF for film is hard is because AF tends to move around the point of best focus and moving a lens is terribly slow compared to the inter-frame time. So you simply don't have the time to figure out what the ideal focus is while shooting film, especially not if camera and/or subject are moving, which is sort of the whole reason for shooting video to begin with.

You’re confusing film and video.

Anyway (D)SLR use phase detect autofocus in which you don’t have to figure out much at all.

Mirrorless is another thing.