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Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity?

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Re: Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity?

#71

Post by MBCook »

nine_k wrote: post #35
rorykoehler wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything should be as simple as possible. It's the mark of good design

There's no single design that suits everyone. It's a toolbox. The job of choosing the right tool is on you.

There’s a big difference between a toolbox and a box with those same tools jumbled up inside.

One is organized and sensible. The other is a mess.

Just because they are both technically capable of the same things doesn’t mean we shouldn’t hold ourselves to the higher standard.

(Haven’t used Kubernetes, just going with the analogy)

Re: Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity?

#72

Post by tootie »

MBCook wrote: post #70
manigandham wrote: post #51

Microsoft Word is also incredibly complex software with decades of development and features, and yet it's just a word processor. Everyone uses a small subset of the actual functionality which is why the entire system can be complex and simple at the same time, depending on your needs. It's exactly the same with Kubernetes. It's just clustering software that ties multiple servers together to give you an PaaS-like work…

But it’s trivial to start typing in Word. Spell checking is easy, as are basic formatting operations. Loading/saving work the way you’d expect. Yes you can write a dissertation with a ton of support from Word to make you life easier, but doing simple things is simple. It sounds like that’s what missing from kubectl. Even for a small start it takes a lot of knowledge. To continue the Word analogy, that sounds like LaT…

It's true and I think that there's a base case for orchestration that is to autoscale nodes based CPU/memory consumption behind a load balancer that would get 90% of projects off the ground without needing to think about yaml files.

Re: Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity?

#73

Post by enos_feedler »

Kubernetes is the Android of the datacenter. Android OEMs are Samsung, HTC, Huawei, etc. Kubernetes OEMs are Google, Amazon, Microsoft etc. With Android, a large % of consumer market gains access to an app ecosystem by choosing Android. Similarly, businesses will _eventually_ gain access to an ecosystem of B2B applications by adopting kubernetes. Kubernetes will be the OS for business.

Re: Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity?

#74

Post by sytse »

hharnisch wrote: post #39

I've gone to the last few KubeCons and given talks at two of them and I'd also consider myself to be more of an app developer than ops. The tone has been very much that Kubernetes is deeper in the stack than most developers want or need to be thinking about. Mantras like "kubectl is the new ssh" have become super popular. So Kubernetes ends up being the platform you build your tools developers deploy their applicatio…

If you're an app developer you shouldn't need kubectl. AppOps should be as easy as Heroku but based on Kubernetes so you have a choice of providers and a graduation path of you need more customization. With GitLab Auto DevOps we tried to provide exactly this. It will go GA June 22. It does more then just building deployment and auto scaling, it runs your unit tests, advises if your quality improved or not, and runs four security tests. All that with a git push.

Re: Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity?

#75

Post by wang_li »

49bc wrote: post #48
mwcampbell wrote: post #33

> available 99.5% of the time with decent alerting for operators to kick it An operator should never have to "kick" a service. It should repair itself, except for the occasional hardware replacement if one is working with bare metal. And for anything that's being sold as a product, as opposed to an internal tool, I think 99.9% availability should be the minimum. But I don't know enough about Kubernetes to say whether…

How many “kicks” does it take to build a reasonably resilient distributed service? A lot!

CAP theorem says it's impossible.

Re: Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity?

#77

Post by tuananh »

chrisweekly wrote: post #14
nimish wrote: post #9

kubernetes is a classic case of a tool designed for consultants and companies to sell consulting services (Including cloud services, which is why every cloud provider leapt onto it). In like 90% of the cases when someone used Kubernetes, Docker Swarm would have easily sufficed.

Docker Swarm is a hot mess.

isn't docker swarm declared dead by docker team?

Re: Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity?

#78

Post by dfee »

enos_feedler wrote: post #73

Kubernetes is the Android of the datacenter. Android OEMs are Samsung, HTC, Huawei, etc. Kubernetes OEMs are Google, Amazon, Microsoft etc. With Android, a large % of consumer market gains access to an app ecosystem by choosing Android. Similarly, businesses will _eventually_ gain access to an ecosystem of B2B applications by adopting kubernetes. Kubernetes will be the OS for business.

For a number of reasons, I think this metaphor fails.

K8s appears more open than Android, is not largely controlled by one corporation, doesn’t come crippled with vendor services, etc.

Re: Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity?

#79

Post by hliyan »

This whole image, to me, represents a big problem with software engineering today: https://twitter.com/dankohn1/status/989956137603747840

The industry is full of engineers who are experts in weirdly named "technologies" (which are really just products and libraries) but have no idea how the actual technologies (e.g. TCP/IP, file systems, memory hierarchy etc.) work. I don't know what to think when I meet engineers who know how to setup an ELB on AWS but don't quite understand what a socket is...

Re: Will Kubernetes Collapse Under the Weight of Its Complexity?

#80

Post by enos_feedler »

dfee wrote: post #78
enos_feedler wrote: post #73

Kubernetes is the Android of the datacenter. Android OEMs are Samsung, HTC, Huawei, etc. Kubernetes OEMs are Google, Amazon, Microsoft etc. With Android, a large % of consumer market gains access to an app ecosystem by choosing Android. Similarly, businesses will _eventually_ gain access to an ecosystem of B2B applications by adopting kubernetes. Kubernetes will be the OS for business.

For a number of reasons, I think this metaphor fails. K8s appears more open than Android, is not largely controlled by one corporation, doesn’t come crippled with vendor services, etc.

No metaphor is perfect. I highlighted where I thought it makes sense (in the ecosystem sense of apps and modules being built on top of it).
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