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Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

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Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#71
post #3

When the people complain about the European union taking too much autonomy, this seems like a pretty good example. It seems crazy to me that Ireland is "not allowed" to set taxes as low as it would like to attract foreign investment. Even states in the US can freely do that!

Yeah, but when states do it in the US it ends up as a race to the bottom. The losers are all the states that participated and the winners are big corporations and their shareholders.

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#73

The Irish Supreme Court has previously held that ex post facto civil laws are illegal in the Republic of Ireland. Is this not ex post facto taxation?

No, it isn't, it is not a problem with tax law, it is a problem of secrets deals with some companies

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#74
post #44
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is political Tim Cook knows all about “optics” It’s rather ignorant and selfish for him to pretend laws shouldn’t change or should only favor him It’s the social equivalent of building on a Google svc and having them shut down that service QQ for Tim Cook but it’s well within the authority of the government in question Poor billionaire snowflake Maybe he can do like Thiel and invest in undermining public institu…

There is a difference between the laws changing and affecting future behavior and a change being applied retroactively. An earlier message indicated that the money was being put in escrow because apparently there is still a dispute about how the law should have been applied in the past. I think it is reasonable to be upset about after-the-fact changes to the application of a law/regulation.

There is

Still legal

Nations built on laws, right?

Just because a particular entities economics position, which has no legal protections enshrined in any national constitutions or political or social theories I know of (economics are economics, not political science), are impacted by that. Welp; nations of laws and legal processes

Downvote with all your ad hominem might all you want. Facts are facts.

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#75
post #32

The Government is putting the money in an escrow account until they figure out what to do[0]. The money would cover Ireland’s social welfare bill for a year which is a major cost to the Irish tax payer. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-apple-taxavoidance/ire...

>The money would cover Ireland’s social welfare bill for a year which is a major cost to the Irish tax payer.

Seems like they are taking a long term perspective rather than a short term boost to their tax-base.

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#76
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that this is true, because (at the state level, not federal) this is table stakes to lure large corporations to locate in one state over another. Just look at some of the pitches cities/states have been making to Amazon for their HQ2, or the Foxconn deal in Wisconsin. https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/05/foxc...

This is very negative behaviour in sum, because it becomes a race to the bottom where you either forgo all tax revenue, or you dont attract large companies. Its good the EU has rules in place to prevent this destructive behaviour.

I don't see the negative outcome. Cities know the economic activity of 50,000 highly paid workers makes up for the loss of some property tax revenue. The alternative is no highly paid jobs and no property tax revenue (as the land is undeveloped).

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very negative behaviour in sum, because it becomes a race to the bottom where you either forgo all tax revenue, or you dont attract large companies. Its good the EU has rules in place to prevent this destructive behaviour.

I don't see the negative outcome. Cities know the economic activity of 50,000 highly paid workers makes up for the loss of some property tax revenue. The alternative is no highly paid jobs and no property tax revenue (as the land is undeveloped).

Then give the same opportunities to all the companies not only to some

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#78
post #74
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between the laws changing and affecting future behavior and a change being applied retroactively. An earlier message indicated that the money was being put in escrow because apparently there is still a dispute about how the law should have been applied in the past. I think it is reasonable to be upset about after-the-fact changes to the application of a law/regulation.

There is Still legal Nations built on laws, right? Just because a particular entities economics position, which has no legal protections enshrined in any national constitutions or political or social theories I know of (economics are economics, not political science), are impacted by that. Welp; nations of laws and legal processes Downvote with all your ad hominem might all you want. Facts are facts.

Hard to follow you, but the process of law making has its own meta rules that we can talk about and that shape the nature of the resulting legal system. Responding to attempts to discuss these meta rules with "it is the law" is basically a category error, you're avoiding the meta discussion.

For example:

  • laws shouldn't be drafted to apply to a single person (bill of attainder)
  • laws shouldn't be applied retroactively (ex post facto)
  • laws shouldn't infringe on individual rights
I don't know enough about the EU/Irish law to be definitive about what is going on with Apple, but my gut says that the law was probably targeted such that few corporations could take advantage of it but not so much that it was just Apple and that the EU enforcement action should not be applied retroactively.
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