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ClojureScript beginners' home page

clojure-script.org

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Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#71

Post by jiyinyiyong »

nxrabl wrote: post #47
jiyinyiyong wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw David adding commands that Windows users need in the docs. Personally I don't like treating Windows users like how I treated Linux/macOS users. You chose Windows, you chose the hard way, you have to figure it out on you own. Post your question to http://clojureverse.org/ see if others can help.

> Personally I don't like treating Windows users like how I treated Linux/macOS users. You chose Windows, you chose the hard way, you have to figure it out on you own. I dunno if you're trolling here (and if so, well done), but this attitude really gets under my skin. Excuse me for ranting at you, but I need to get this off my chest. I think that this attitude is harmful to open source projects, and to projects of al…

The official team does value Windows users.

For me, I'm a web developer. And we all know how web developers hate Internet Explorers. I was a Ubuntu users in my first years learning programming before I got a macbook. There are always reasons for me to hate Windows, even though Windows has majority of the users.

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#72

Post by laughingman2 »

nxrabl wrote: post #47
jiyinyiyong wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw David adding commands that Windows users need in the docs. Personally I don't like treating Windows users like how I treated Linux/macOS users. You chose Windows, you chose the hard way, you have to figure it out on you own. Post your question to http://clojureverse.org/ see if others can help.

> Personally I don't like treating Windows users like how I treated Linux/macOS users. You chose Windows, you chose the hard way, you have to figure it out on you own. I dunno if you're trolling here (and if so, well done), but this attitude really gets under my skin. Excuse me for ranting at you, but I need to get this off my chest. I think that this attitude is harmful to open source projects, and to projects of al…

>Linux may be free as in freedom, but it's not free as in beer, not if time is money

Open source project developers which are not funded are also spending their valuable time to create something. Giving them grief for not supporting an platform (one that especially is anti-open) like windows is also not productive.

When software corporations push their software using their market power in adversarial fashion, some open source devs may opt to be adversarial in not choosing to support the platforms. It is a way to combat fire with fire.

Microsoft played major role in suppressing desktop linux with its adversarial, monopolistic policies pushing windows which is the reason why many people are robbed of choice.

I don't know why the open source developers who spend time giving something to the community should bear the brunt of evils of corporations.

This is similar to large corporations (who pollute everywhere because it would affect their profit margins not to) love movements like Go Green , etc (which are important in individual level ) as they divert attention and guilt to the consumer when the company could have done otherwise.

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#73

Post by geokon »

jiyinyiyong wrote: post #36
geokon wrote: post #25

I haven't found a place that explains the big picture and how everything fits together. Is there a good resource to learn clojurescript for someone who's never done web programming and without having to learn JS? I'm learning Clojure now (coming from years of C++) and I love it. There is a bit of black magic (lein/cider make cmake look like a shell script) but CJS is a bit daunting b/c it has so many layers. CJS on L…

Hard question. Try this thread? https://clojureverse.org/t/is-there-a-good-resource-to-learn...

Thanks for making that

btw - what's the Clojure scene like in China?

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#74

Post by zck »

jiyinyiyong wrote: post #69
zck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's your target market for the front page? If it's people who don't know what Clojurescript is, why confuse them with hundreds of characters of incomprehensible code, with no understanding of why it's there or what it does? On the other hand, if it's people who are familiar with Clojurescript...also why is it there? It's given no motivation on the page, and gets in the way of people finding what they're looking for…

State your backgrounds please~ ClojureScript users? Non-Clojure programmer? Known Lisp? Showing code is most direct way of telling people what ClojureScript is. The official side gave thousands of words but people with less knowledge just don't read. Code just tells, even audience don't get the whole ideas, they are impressed. Also the page listed quite some projects which are important to the community, which the of…

Have used ClojureScript a little bit, Clojure a fair amount, a lot of coding in other Lisps.

Having code is useful! Yes! But it is easier if people are guided to it. On the reddit thread you link, you link to two tweets containing the homepages for languages like CoffeeScript, PureScript, and LispyScript. All of these pages have code on the main page, yes.

But note that on all of them, the code snippets are motivated. LispyScript has eight lines of code across six heavily explained examples. PureScript has five lines of code that come after a tagline that explains what the language is, then ten bullet points explaining benefits. Each example of Elm code is separately motivated. The user is never left guessing why the code is there: the first snippet is "Javascript Interop"; the second "No Runtime Exceptions".

Compare that to clojure-script.org/. The first thing I see when I load the page is "InterOp". Interop of what? The first English word I see on the page is "Microsoft". Is Clojurescript a Microsoft project? This is inverted, where the page wants to dive into details about Clojurescript before even explaining what Clojurescript is. You wouldn't display a Western-style horse saddle, expect them to figure out on their own the differences between that and an English saddle when you don't state them, and you definitely wouldn't talk about that before explaining what horseback riding is!

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#76

Post by CodeArtisan »

stojano wrote: post #60

Still figuring out the keybindings for spacemacs... after mastering it, I'll have a look at Clojure & ClojureScript. CU in 2020

Nightcode, Nightlight, Nightcoders are programming environments specifically made for clojure/clojurescript.

http://nightcoders.net/ https://sekao.net/nightlight/ https://sekao.net/nightcode/

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#77

Post by jiyinyiyong »

geokon wrote: post #73
jiyinyiyong wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard question. Try this thread? https://clojureverse.org/t/is-there-a-good-resource-to-learn...

Thanks for making that btw - what's the Clojure scene like in China?

Not many jobs here. We recently see a company starting meeups in Shengzhen, which can be found on http://clojure-china.org/ . Situation is getting better very slowly.

And we have WeChat group with 200+ people. There are many people interested in Clojure and some of them like me would love to try Clojure(Script) in our own projects.

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#78

Post by jiyinyiyong »

zck wrote: post #74
jiyinyiyong wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

State your backgrounds please~ ClojureScript users? Non-Clojure programmer? Known Lisp? Showing code is most direct way of telling people what ClojureScript is. The official side gave thousands of words but people with less knowledge just don't read. Code just tells, even audience don't get the whole ideas, they are impressed. Also the page listed quite some projects which are important to the community, which the of…

Have used ClojureScript a little bit, Clojure a fair amount, a lot of coding in other Lisps. Having code is useful! Yes! But it is easier if people are guided to it. On the reddit thread you link, you link to two tweets containing the homepages for languages like CoffeeScript, PureScript, and LispyScript. All of these pages have code on the main page, yes. But note that on all of them, the code snippets are motivated…

Can't disagree. I didn't see the page in that way before. At first I just want to paste some code there. If a new user came, he/she knows nothing about Clojure and he/she does not read it. He/she gets the impression that Clojure is a Lisp with so many garish features, nice. If a experienced Clojure user same, he just recognized the code and thought "yes that is Clojure".

If a new user tries to read the code, there can be confusions. True. There's still quite a gap in in front of new users who want to know ClojureScript better. Any examples you have seen that solves the problem while we still have so many snippets in the first screen?

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#79

Post by zck »

jiyinyiyong wrote: post #78
zck wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have used ClojureScript a little bit, Clojure a fair amount, a lot of coding in other Lisps. Having code is useful! Yes! But it is easier if people are guided to it. On the reddit thread you link, you link to two tweets containing the homepages for languages like CoffeeScript, PureScript, and LispyScript. All of these pages have code on the main page, yes. But note that on all of them, the code snippets are motivated…

Can't disagree. I didn't see the page in that way before. At first I just want to paste some code there. If a new user came, he/she knows nothing about Clojure and he/she does not read it. He/she gets the impression that Clojure is a Lisp with so many garish features, nice. If a experienced Clojure user same, he just recognized the code and thought "yes that is Clojure". If a new user tries to read the code, there ca…

I think some of the other sites you linked are great examples.

So move the elevator pitch for Clojurescript to the top of the page. "Clojurescript is a compiler for Clojure that targets Javascript" is an explanation technically, but you might want to write something more about why you'd use Clojurescript.

For example, the first words you see on Elm's site are "A delightful language for reliable webapps.". So you'd use Elm to make webapps, and it should be enjoyable to use. Ruby says "A dynamic, open source programming language with a focus on simplicity and productivity. It has an elegant syntax that is natural to read and easy to write." Note how none of these focus on how the language is implemented; most users don't care. The language could have a compiler written in Brainfuck to compile to Lua, but that's all under the hood.

So write a sentence or two about why a programmer would choose Clojurescript for a task. What kinds of things does Clojurescript do well?

Also, I'd suggest motivating the snippets the way Elm does, where the user isn't left guessing why a snippet is there. It's explicitly explained.

Re: ClojureScript beginners' home page

#80

Post by jiyinyiyong »

zck wrote: post #79
jiyinyiyong wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't disagree. I didn't see the page in that way before. At first I just want to paste some code there. If a new user came, he/she knows nothing about Clojure and he/she does not read it. He/she gets the impression that Clojure is a Lisp with so many garish features, nice. If a experienced Clojure user same, he just recognized the code and thought "yes that is Clojure". If a new user tries to read the code, there ca…

I think some of the other sites you linked are great examples. So move the elevator pitch for Clojurescript to the top of the page. "Clojurescript is a compiler for Clojure that targets Javascript" is an explanation technically, but you might want to write something more about why you'd use Clojurescript. For example, the first words you see on Elm's site are "A delightful language for reliable webapps.". So you'd us…

Hard question for me. Trying to reach for help https://clojureverse.org/t/how-do-you-introduce-clojurescrip...
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