China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector • Hacker News Board

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#71

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Apr 14, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #68

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve worked for Microsoft in China, our C suite was all Chinese (well, many Taiwanese). The nearest foreigner headed up sales for the region, was a German. Americans were common, but they were almost all Chinese or Taiwanese who naturalized. Our SVP based in Redmond was also a Chinese (In charge of all of Microsoft Research and advanced research). He would try to conduct our meetings in Chinese, and then would demure…

Since when is China part of "continental Europe"?

It isn’t, but since we were talking about China anyways. Note that many Microsoft employees (as in most big tech companies) even in the states aren’t American, which is already quite different from Chinese tech companies. As for Europe, my colleagues in Cambridge conducted most of their business in English and most of the management was from Europe (not necessarily the UK). We didn’t have much presence in the continent.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#72

Post by worldexplorer » Sat, Apr 14, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

adinobro wrote: post #56

petra wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon vs Alibaba - to simplify, this game will be won by the best supply chain, And sure Amazon leads by far. But what happens when the "one belt one road" railroad is finished ? Will Alibaba get a preferential treatment ? And if so, could Amazon handle that ?

Have you tried Amazon outside of the USA? It sucks. In the UK I've been told it is ok. In Australia, Thailand and China it is not a great experience. In China Tmall is an amazing experience. In their home markets they both seem to be entrenched but globally I'm not sure if either will win.

Don't know about other countries but Amazon India gives amazing experience. Maybe it is because of cut-throat competition from local players like Flipkart.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#73

Post by barrkel » Sat, Apr 14, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #32

The "trade war" thing has been the most/only interesting ideas to come from trump, to me. It was interesting in that he did recognized (fluked into?) an actual shift in public/expert position. China is the pro-trade side. They'll be willing to make concessions, do the work, etc. It's the beijing consensus now, not washington. Large american companies are still on the pro-trade side, being multinationals. They also ha…

> Who says a fake Gucci is a crime, if the buyer knows it's fake.

It's not enough for the buyer to know it's fake, everyone who sees it must also know it's fake, or else the fake is freeriding on the cachet generated by Gucci's marketing.

People buy prominently branded fashion objects for their signalling value more than their utility value. Signalling which is easy to fake isn't very valuable.

It's perfectly possible to think that social signalling using fashion objects is wrong and should be eliminated, but signalling appears biologically determined and is common across many species, it's unlikely to be eliminated without committing greater wrongs.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#74

Post by reeedom » Sat, Apr 14, 2018, 2:26 PM UTC

Actually this is not even close to nationalization.

The article's title is misleading even by the standard's of the article, which goes on to call it, "quasi-nationalization".

But even that is misreading the situation.

The objective is not "control" of the tech sector as the article pretends, it is just greater collaboration. So the state and tech companies can both benefit.

The state doesn't want the burden of taking control. Plus they don't want to interfere and slow things down. They want to learn from tech to better their own ogranizations and also to teach tech how they can benefit from working with the state more closely.

It's about greater integration, not control. And since China is so successful at organizing and governing more than 1 billion people already, the more they work with cutting edge tech, the better things will get.

You can say they are making a police state, but at least they can maintain law and order, and are willing to keep thinking long-term and keep innovating even in government. The government wants to support its nation's tech companies. If Chinese tech companies can become the best / most valuable in the world, it will be more advancement toward the great rejuvenation of the Chinese people that China is pursuing.

In the drive to find any negative spin to put on Chinese progress, commentators frequently miss important points, and mischaracterize / misread significant developments. Finding fault is easier, and perhaps more satisfying for someone who is really desperate to feel good about themselves without other reasons to, but seeing what's really going on is more useful.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#75

Post by qweqw123 » Sat, Apr 14, 2018, 2:28 PM UTC

alehul wrote: post #55

phyalow wrote: post #4

A picture is worth a thousand words. The sculpture outside the front of Tencents Shenzhen HQ. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXRIsWrVQAAJgjl.jpg

As someone with parents who experienced the USSR, this is what really terrifies me about China's rise, and the reason I can't say I'm against a trade war if it hinders them more than us. Imagine a world in which China holds more control... a country with little legal or social respect for individualism, where your fate is 'centrally planned' by how impressive your maths skills are. By contrast, ~30% of American billi…

arent's you romanticizing the US a bit much? the country was built by slaves.

"the US will self-select for the ambitious and the inspired and those who desire freedom" this is just hogwash

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#76

Post by oxymoran » Sat, Apr 14, 2018, 2:30 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #12

Comparison Baidu - Google Baidu is horrid, even in Chinese. Baidu doesn't have nearly as big stronghold on advertising in Chinese market as Google has in every market outside of China. End of discussion. Alibaba - Amazon On commercial side, Alibaba steamrolls Amazon with some margin remaining. Tech-wise, Alibaba sucks big time. Their search algo is something horrid. Alibaba has a relatively big part of Internet ads p…

Tencent is undisturbed by ads because it’s subsidized by the state to funnel user data back to the state. Tencent is one of the companies leading the development of the social credit system that the Chinese government is pushing. The only possible thing worse than Facebook funneling data for the highest bidder, would be Facebook funneling data directly to an oppressive state, which is exactly what Tencent is doing.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#77

Post by alehul » Sat, Apr 14, 2018, 2:32 PM UTC

qweqw123 wrote: post #75

alehul wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with parents who experienced the USSR, this is what really terrifies me about China's rise, and the reason I can't say I'm against a trade war if it hinders them more than us. Imagine a world in which China holds more control... a country with little legal or social respect for individualism, where your fate is 'centrally planned' by how impressive your maths skills are. By contrast, ~30% of American billi…

arent's you romanticizing the US a bit much? the country was built by slaves. "the US will self-select for the ambitious and the inspired and those who desire freedom" this is just hogwash

Sorry if you found it offensive.

I'm definitely romanticizing the U.S. quite a bit. At the same time, that romanticization is inspiring (at least to me) and largely true today when you compare us to countries like China, where you have much less control over your future. Also, moving to a country that provides greater freedom and opportunity at the cost of less of a social net and lower taxes will almost definitely self-select for the ambitious.

Slavery also continued in practice in China until at least 1949 [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_China

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#78

Post by pishpash » Sat, Apr 14, 2018, 2:32 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #15

k__ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Seems like China is the first country who got the means for centralization. They got the ideology and the tech to manage it on that scale. Also they're too big to get attacked.

>Seems like China is the first country who got the means for centralization. No, the previous grand experiment with this ended in 74 years of fail, with small upswings during NEP era, Khrushev and right before the fall.

No, China is really the first (that lasted). It started two thousand years ago. Y'all have short memories.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#79

Post by pishpash » Sat, Apr 14, 2018, 2:35 PM UTC

purple-again wrote: post #52

unmole wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about top four? Paper, printing, gunpowder and compass.

I downvoted the parent comment but your response is also disengenuous. Unless I’m allowed to claim credit for Rome’s victories the ‘China’ that invented those things shares nothing with the China being discussed right now.

They share the familial authoritarianism that is the explicit governing model for every version of "China".

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#80

Post by anoncoward111 » Sat, Apr 14, 2018, 2:37 PM UTC

diego_moita wrote: post #35

rayiner wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like premature celebration. The Soviet Union was incredibly successful (turning a backwater into a superpower in a few decades) until it wasn’t.

The first catastrophic failure of the Soviet Union was agriculture. When the West was beginning Borlaug's Green Revolution they were deep into Stalin's great famine, the Holodomor. Their inability to put bread on tables is at the root of their collapse. Most tragedies in China's recent history also have their cause on failure to produce food. I wonder how China is prepared to handle the impact Global Warming will hav…

>Stalin's inability to put food on tables = cause for USSR's failure

I need to clarify something on this point. Stalin's famine was deliberately engineered to kill Ukrainians.

It was not a failure of central economic planning, but actually, shockingly, a triumph.

Stalin confiscated Ukrainian citizens' guns and land, and forced them to work 180 days per year on centrally planned crop attempts. The product of their labor- grain- was then placed on a train and sold abroad at bargain prices. This money was then directed back to Moscow only, and the Ukrainians were left to starve.

I am against central planning. I am against totalitarianism. But the Holodomor was no accident of central planning.

Shockingly, it was the desired outcome.