Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

gizmodo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 158 posts

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#71

Post by creep »

asaph wrote: post #28
throwaway84742 wrote: post #15

Here are my results so far: 1. MS Family Safety: can be easily turned off by the child 2. Kaspersky Safe Kids: doesn’t really work at all. 3. Qustodio: doesn’t block apps, so kinda useless. It blocks some, but not others. I would pay good money for something that does work. As things are now, my 14 yo can only use his computer under adult supervision to do his homework. Otherwise he doesn’t do it at all. I don’t even…

What would you have done at his age? Would you have done your homework promptly or played video games first? Did you ever skip your homework altogether? Be honest.

If I was born just five or so years later, I'd be that guy's kid.

My mother didn't know how to discipline me. She would try and then I would convince her to give up. She never put any controls on anything I did-- consequently, I didn't learn what life could be like with those controls in place.

Parenting is mostly a guessing game, but I honestly believe that no matter what, one has to teach discipline in some form or another. Once you see the kid disciplining him/herself, then you cut down on the discipline you provide. The human brain is not necessarily designed to be naturally disciplined. Your kid will veg out if you don't teach and enforce rules that show them what can happen when rules are in place-- things like graduating high school, for example.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#72

Post by Someone1234 »

erispoe wrote: post #36
marsrover wrote: post #32

I'm having a daughter soon and plan on white listing websites through the router. I don't plan to monitor anything but I do know there are things out there that would be detrimental for her to see. We will add sites to the white list as we go. Just to be clear, at a certain age I will give her full access.

I'm curious, what do you think is the right age to give full access?

After they've gone through puberty and we've talked about difficult topics like safe sex. A lot of filters cannot help but block access to USEFUL sex ed information while aggressively trying to limit pornography access.

While I'd prefer they limit their porn access as a teenager, plenty of well adjusted people didn't and came out fine. I am far more concerned about "sexting" (and having it shared around at school/used to bully), and authorities trying to prosecute underage kids for having pictures of their own (and their love interest's) bodies on a device they own.

The whole "porn is a public health emergency" thing is largely bullshit. Unhealthy attitudes to sex and an overreaction by authority figures might be a "health emergency" though.

Particularly as a lot of parents will happily let teenagers watch people get blown apart in movies and on TV, but suddenly two people lovingly touching each other naked is just a step too far! It is hypocritical. Particularly with shows like GoT that they're going to watch because everyone else is (and we are).

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#73

Post by ryandrake »

The article (and some comments here) seems to not be distinguishing between monitoring and blocking. The title says “monitoring” which is kind of a solved problem. I monitor my family's network regularly, looking for bandwidth spikes, evidence of viruses & malware, outages, etc. I’m not going to sit there monitoring content or where my wife and kids are at all times.

Blocking content, on the other hand, is destined to fail. Whitelisting will always be too strict, blacklists will never cover everything you might find objectionable, and heuristics will be inexact. If you want to block out the world from your kids my advice (as a parent myself) is don’t—instead invest the time and effort into establishing a trusting and understanding relationship and instilling the right values. Values drive motivation which drives actions.

As a parent I’m not my kid’s friend but I’m also not house dictator.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#74

Post by kristofferR »

sorenjan wrote: post #66
sathackr wrote: post #16

Trust. But verify. Step-father of a 12 year old boy here. We started monitoring his internet after we caught him looking at inappropriate videos on youtube. He knows he is being monitored and I only block actual porn sites. Neither of us like it but until he has earned our trust back, the situation will not change. I'm his parent, not his friend. My job isn't to make him like me, it's to raise him with proper values…

And making things forbidden won't encourage a 12 year old to find a way to get to it anyway? The hormonal boy will just say "porn is blocked here, I won't look at titties until my parents says it's ok"?

It rather works the exact opposite way, teenagers are way more likely to find disallowed things interesting.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#75

Post by weego »

erispoe wrote: post #13
nickthegreek wrote: post #6

When I was a young boy in the 90s, my libertarian aligned father let me use the computer and access the internet. He explained to me that I shouldn't visit certain type of sites, I should never give out my name or address and that he had software installed to monitor what happened on the computer. He explained that this wasn't a breach of trust between us as I was using his equipment and that I had to abide by his ru…

It's not so much about the breach of trust than about raising independent, well-functioning individuals. There's good evidence than sheltering kids and not allowing them to experiment on their own terms, including by experiencing the consequences of their own actions, does not create well adapted adults. Parents who install monitoring systems are prioritizing their own short-term well-being and peace of mind at the e…

My house my rules is perfectly fine. Any policy is bad if you're a parent with trust and empathy issues

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#76

Post by joezydeco »

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #58

Apple doesn't make it possible to have reasonable controls on an iOS device, unfortunately. There is no fine-grained way to say what apps can be used when, what web sites can be used or not used, etc. Even things that seem like they should work (e.g., "Allow the Amazon Kindle app but not Safari") don't, because of hidden features that breaks Kindle when Safari isn't enabled. I've tried many apps, including Qustodio.…

I would be happy if Apple could at least implement time restrictions like the Parental Controls on MacOS. That's been available for what, almost a decade now?

The closest thing that's available is something that blocks traffic at the router level, like Circle. But even that isn't perfect, since kids can still use local apps that don't need full network access.

I've also tried some of the MDM programs like OurPact, but the UI is awful and they do a lousy job of implementing it on the client side, probably in part because of what Apple allows to be turned off and what they do not.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#77

Post by ausjke »

throwaway84742 wrote: post #15

Here are my results so far: 1. MS Family Safety: can be easily turned off by the child 2. Kaspersky Safe Kids: doesn’t really work at all. 3. Qustodio: doesn’t block apps, so kinda useless. It blocks some, but not others. I would pay good money for something that does work. As things are now, my 14 yo can only use his computer under adult supervision to do his homework. Otherwise he doesn’t do it at all. I don’t even…

What about thin clients in the house? I know this is an old concept but with a thin-client the PC can be used only for homework, it's low power for gaming, and kids can not install anything on it, and they can use safe-browser with google...I am facing similar challenges at home.

or maybe just chromeOS on chromebooks? schools are using that, maybe that's a good fit for kids surfing at home (for homework etc)

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#78

Post by creep »

I think the most important thing a parent can do for a child is develop a strong bond of trust. Be consistent in what you say and do and be honest about any questions they ask. If you're going to make a rule, stick to it, but also show them at an early age that you think they can be trusted. If they trust you and you tell them that going to x site is bad, they will be much more likely to believe you and avoid the site. If they do go to x site and discover that it's bad, they'll tell you about it as long as you don't have a track record of punishing your kid for telling the truth, and you have the opportunity to talk it out and make sure your kid is okay.

If your kid just doesn't want to listen, then maybe install a monitoring/blocking program. Also, especially do that when they are very young. You don't really need to do it above age 8 or so, as hopefully by then they will have developed a rhythm with the Internet that suits them.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#79

Post by SomeHacker44 »

dvdhnt wrote: post #62
SomeHacker44 wrote: post #58

Apple doesn't make it possible to have reasonable controls on an iOS device, unfortunately. There is no fine-grained way to say what apps can be used when, what web sites can be used or not used, etc. Even things that seem like they should work (e.g., "Allow the Amazon Kindle app but not Safari") don't, because of hidden features that breaks Kindle when Safari isn't enabled. I've tried many apps, including Qustodio.…

> There is no fine-grained way to say what apps can be used when, what web sites can be used or not used, etc. I'm surprised to hear that. We've had the smaller model iPod for a couple of years now. I have parental restrictions on and my daughter can't install (thus, not use) apps that I do not approve, nor can she visit any websites that I do not whitelist. Both features are stock, no third party app needed. The for…

You're right about how iOS restrictions work. My statement about an in-between is that there is no way for me to say "allow this app from time X to Y, for at most Z minutes" - it's all or nothing. You can have this app, or not have this app.

Additionally, there is no way for me to remotely manage it. If a child refuses to turn the phone off, I cannot hit a management tool and lock it down (at least, not without using an MDM profile, as Qustodio and other solutions can be trivially defeated by deleting their management profile which requires no permissions). If I want to monitor where they go and how much time they spend on each app, there is no way to do it.

So, I can do super-basic things, but nothing fine-grained or interesting from my parenting perspective.

So, it all gets turned off and is basically a Find-my-Friends, phone/FaceTime and iMessage tool for $700. Not exactly a good value and not something I will be sending any more money to Apple for.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#80

Post by jessaustin »

kristofferR wrote: post #67
sathackr wrote: post #16

Trust. But verify. Step-father of a 12 year old boy here. We started monitoring his internet after we caught him looking at inappropriate videos on youtube. He knows he is being monitored and I only block actual porn sites. Neither of us like it but until he has earned our trust back, the situation will not change. I'm his parent, not his friend. My job isn't to make him like me, it's to raise him with proper values…

"Inappropriate videos on youtube", like what?

I'm envisioning the breast exam from "Office Space". "Hey Peter, check it out, channel 9!"
Post reply on HN