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Ask HN: How did you become fluent in English?

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Re: Ask HN: How did you become fluent in English?

#71

Post by Tharkun »

Mostly learnt English online. Bulletin boards. IRC. Reading sci-fi & fantasy. Watching movies. Talking to oodles of internet friends on ICQ and the phone. By the time I was old enough for the compulsory English classes at school -- 14? -- I was fluent.

English was my third language, currently working on my fifth (Japanese), so I guess I've got some experience when it comes to this. Best advice I can give you is this: read a lot & listen a lot. So basically books and movies. The English version of a book/movie you like is a good starting point. Lord of the Rings is my weapon of choice. I've read it in four languages. I know the story. I know Tolkien's style. So reading it in a different language is great for brushing up on that language.

Re: Ask HN: How did you become fluent in English?

#72

Post by sunstone »

Some people, though very few, can become native English speakers on their own. The people that can divide into two distinct camps, musicians and heavy movie watchers (English movies of course).

Musicians by training are talented listeners and heavy movie watchers, whether talented listeners are not, get exposed to so much real sounding English that they can't help but to learn it subconsciously if in no other way.

Typical adult listeners no longer here sounds as they are but map sounds of foreign languages into the sounds their brain already knows. This lack of accuracy in listening is the primary impediment to become fluent in a language.

Re: Ask HN: How did you become fluent in English?

#73

Post by bayindirh »

robocat wrote: post #65
bayindirh wrote: post #18

First of all read a lot. Read local communities like Reddit, HN (here), slashdot, etc. This will make you familiar with the daily language. Second, listen a lot. Watch movies with original sound and English subtitles. Try to understand, try to make sense of it. If you listen English songs, try to listen a little more attentive. Then write a lot. Try to take your notes in English. Comment your code in English. Try to…

Mimicking is the critical skill for spoken English. I bet you have ugly flaws in your spoken English, although I also bet that your written English is better than many brought up speaking English. I often deal with tourists, and I detect serious flaws in their speaking as a result of their learning to read and write first (transliteration is a problem too). Common ways of teaching English in schools are deeply flawed…

Actually, you're assuming that I'm doing all these to mimic other English speakers, and you're wrong.

I'm not a late learner. I'm exposed to English when I'm ~4 yo, and started to learn it at 7. Also, I cannot learn by mimicking. I listen and read to learn, to understand how the culture is choosing words, how it works in real world. It's a kind of practice.

Because of my Job, I'm talking with Europeans a lot, and I'm considered a very clearly speaking guy. I've some accent which is carried from my mother tongue, but not from mimicking English dialects.

My English education wasn't purely language education. Whole curriculum was in English, so there was no place for mimicking. We were forced to think in English. The language is integrated into our lives for 6+ years. As a result, I can write at the speed of speech. Also while initial spellings are given as complete words, pronunciation is taught to us. So I can reasonably read or speak a work I've never seen.

When I go abroad to attend some meetings, I cannot completely switch to my mother tongue (both in spoken voice and inner voice) when I land for 30 minutes or so.

Re: Ask HN: How did you become fluent in English?

#74

Post by lucb1e »

By doing. Try to write, read, speak and listen to large volumes of English. I've written blog posts, chatted a lot with people in games (mainly text, sometimes voice), talked English at every opportunity (e.g. I'd seek out non-Dutch people in class and do projects with them), wrote elaborate answers on the security stackexchange website, listened to audio books, etc.

I didn't have good experiences with apps that try to gamify the process like Duolingo, but that might have been because I used it in semi-corner cases: in English I wanted to go from mediocre to advanced, and for German I already knew Dutch so most of it was super basic and didn't really help me.

I've also looked for other hacks to get better at a language, but the thing that really helps is just by doing. I guess audio books are sort of a hack, because you don't have to be very actively busy with it: you can put an audio book on while doing laundry, dishes, driving/walking/biking, falling asleep, etc. And it teaches you vocabulary (most unfamiliar words are clear from context), correct word use (including proverbs/sayings), and pronunciation. Unfortunately, I noticed later that I don't know how to spell those words, but that's just a minor issue (easy to look up when needed). I still encounter words randomly and think to myself "oh that's how it's written! I just read this sentence fluently but I never read this word before".

Re: Ask HN: How did you become fluent in English?

#75

Post by FearNotDaniel »

bayindirh wrote: post #73
robocat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mimicking is the critical skill for spoken English. I bet you have ugly flaws in your spoken English, although I also bet that your written English is better than many brought up speaking English. I often deal with tourists, and I detect serious flaws in their speaking as a result of their learning to read and write first (transliteration is a problem too). Common ways of teaching English in schools are deeply flawed…

Actually, you're assuming that I'm doing all these to mimic other English speakers, and you're wrong. I'm not a late learner. I'm exposed to English when I'm ~4 yo, and started to learn it at 7. Also, I cannot learn by mimicking. I listen and read to learn, to understand how the culture is choosing words, how it works in real world. It's a kind of practice. Because of my Job, I'm talking with Europeans a lot, and I'm…

Sorry to say it, but your written English reads very stilted to me, a native (British) English speaker. Assuming your spoken English is a similar level, your European colleagues are right - it is clear in the sense that it is easy to understand what you are trying to say. But your word choice and grammar are a very long way away from a native speaker. If you do have a desire to sound more natural in the way you use English, I would suggest you actually take the advice to listen to the way native speakers use the language and try to copy what they do. At the moment you sound much more like a tourist than you think you do.

Re: Ask HN: How did you become fluent in English?

#76

Post by chipuni »

raitom wrote: post #28

To improve my english I listened to a lot of Country and Rap music. This way I kinda learn a lot of slang words and expression. First job in the states my coworkers weren’t really talkative. I used to go to a stripclub during the weekends. Trust me your brain will be more than motivated to learn english when you need to talk to half nudes girls haha.

I thoroughly support this way to improve your English.

Tip well.

Re: Ask HN: How did you become fluent in English?

#77

Post by bayindirh »

FearNotDaniel wrote: post #75
bayindirh wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, you're assuming that I'm doing all these to mimic other English speakers, and you're wrong. I'm not a late learner. I'm exposed to English when I'm ~4 yo, and started to learn it at 7. Also, I cannot learn by mimicking. I listen and read to learn, to understand how the culture is choosing words, how it works in real world. It's a kind of practice. Because of my Job, I'm talking with Europeans a lot, and I'm…

Sorry to say it, but your written English reads very stilted to me, a native (British) English speaker. Assuming your spoken English is a similar level, your European colleagues are right - it is clear in the sense that it is easy to understand what you are trying to say. But your word choice and grammar are a very long way away from a native speaker. If you do have a desire to sound more natural in the way you use E…

Actually my language skills, regardless of language, varies according to my mood and energy, and it's late here.

However, this is not to dismiss your comment as moot or anything, I'll keep this in mind. Thanks for the heads up.

Re: Ask HN: How did you become fluent in English?

#78

Post by asafira »

I know this is probably not the answer you are looking for, but I wanted to chip in nonetheless: English is my 3rd language, but I was more-or-less forced to learn it once I started school in Kindergarten. So, I learned during my first two years or so in school =).

Also, note that while being fluent in English helps communication a ton, it is far from sufficient to mean you are a good communicator. If you are interested in more details on how to get better at communication in general (not just becoming fluent in English), let me know.

Re: Ask HN: How did you become fluent in English?

#79

Post by FearNotDaniel »

mikejharrison wrote: post #66
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #45

I grew up in Italy. Among EU countries, Italians have one of the worst English accent and vocabulary, because Italian TV "dubs" every single movie and TV show ever invented. In fact, you often hear that "Italian dubbers (e.g. voice over actors) are the best in the world". In my teenage years, my father gave me an amazing present: for two summers, he paid to send me to study English in Scotland once, and in Sussex onc…

I'm English. A couple of years ago I started learning Italian by listening to podcasts (Coffee Break Italian) and reading children's books. I then travelled to Assisi to try it out for the first time. The locals were fantastic, they slowed down and spoke very clearly. It's a beautiful place. I agree though, travelling and learning about new places in another language is awesome, it unlocks so much, and really encoura…

> they slowed down and spoke very clearly

I wish Austrians were the same... unfortunately most folks here tend to switch between fast German with a thick local dialect, or talking back to me in English, neither of which helps me to actually improve my German...

Re: Ask HN: How did you become fluent in English?

#80

Post by lottin »

1. Learn the basics

2. Read a lot (preferably books) in order to acquire a large vocabulary

Most people stop here, but if you want to be able to communicate orally you still need to

3. Study English phonetics and dialects

4. Get as much exposure to spoken English as you possibly can (by listening to radio programmes, podcasts, watching TV, and so on)

5. Talk a lot (talking to yourself works too, if you don't have anyone else)

Notice that this is a years-long endeavour which takes a lot of time and effort, but in my experience it's definitely worth it.

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