Remember when people laughed off Stallman as an extremist?
Zuckerberg hits users with the hard truth: You agreed to this
71–80 of 82 posts
Re: Zuckerberg hits users with the hard truth: You agreed to this
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
So many excuses. The story "Of course I agreed, but its all their fault because I didn't know what I agreed to" gets old. Everybody has known for years that Facebook uses this data against you to make money. If it didn't upset you before why would it suddenly upset you now?
If it didn't upset you before why would it suddenly upset you now? People have been upset about this since Messenger came out. You can look up articles dating back to 2014 warning people about all the permissions Messenger uses. False assertions that people weren't upset before are getting old.
And back then many of the people saying stuff like...
> If it didn't upset you before why would it suddenly upset you now?
...were probably putting down the people who were upset by saying they were being paranoid.
I think the fuel that's driving the intensity of this scandal is the evidence that the "paranoid" fears were broadly correct and the trust people placed in Facebook was misplaced.
Re: Zuckerberg hits users with the hard truth: You agreed to this
#73Dear Zuckerberg, If we consented to this and were still genuinely surprised, its an indication that the consent was not sufficiently informed. This is your problem, not ours. Most of us Average Joes just don't understand the scope of what data collection is possible when we give you access to our phone's features - especially when you couch the access request for quite innocuous and even helpful features. Worse, we d…
No, it's literally your problem, if there are things happening with the data that are causing you problems.
Re: Zuckerberg hits users with the hard truth: You agreed to this
#74FYI, Zuckerberg's _not_ referring to the EULA or TOS. He's talking about this dialog box in the app itself: https://i.imgur.com/zGUdifB.png Specifically, the very first sentence of the dialog box, which says: > Continuously upload info about your contacts like phone numbers and nicknames, and your call and text history. The article's not entirely clear on that point, so I thought I'd mention it here.
Thanks for the screenshot. That's a pretty clear and overt prompt.
...And one I would never agree to, yet my address book is in my Facebook data export. I wonder what previous iterations of that prompt looked like, especially around the time of Android 4.0, which must have been about when I installed the app. Does anyone know if there are old screenshots, or historic versions of the APK available anywhere to check?
Re: Zuckerberg hits users with the hard truth: You agreed to this
#75Why don't they just come out with a subscription version of Facebook? $40/year for no ads, no data miners or data sharing and a customizable "news" feed (e.g. no shared posts from crazy Uncle, prioritize family, etc.) Some percentage of users will do that. If 1% of 2 billion users choose it, then they get $800 million per year. It seems logical if people don't like being the product, let them pay for the product, rig…
If they get $40/user through ads, and thought they could get $40 out of pocket, they'd be making $80/user by doing both.
Where did the meme that paying for a product means they won't advertise or sell your data come from? Everyone is aware of cable TV's business model, right?
Re: Zuckerberg hits users with the hard truth: You agreed to this
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't want to be a FB apologist (I uninstalled fb/messenger because of all this), but the text of the prompt seems relatively clear: > Continuously upload info about your contacts like phone numbers and nicknames, and your call and text history. This lets friends find each other on Facebook and helps us create a better experience for everyone. https://fbnewsroomus.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/opt-in_scre... Granted,…
That's from Facebook's response to the scandal, right? Has that prompt always been there? A lot of people seem to be unaware that Facebook has been doing this, and I haven't seen anyone say they saw that prompt in 2015. I searched Google for the text of that prompt, or any reference to Facebook accessing your SMS history, in 2014 to 2017, and didn't find anything.
The earlier prompt never mentioned anything about sms and call logs, just uploading contacts.
Re: Zuckerberg hits users with the hard truth: You agreed to this
#77Dear Zuckerberg, If we consented to this and were still genuinely surprised, its an indication that the consent was not sufficiently informed. This is your problem, not ours. Most of us Average Joes just don't understand the scope of what data collection is possible when we give you access to our phone's features - especially when you couch the access request for quite innocuous and even helpful features. Worse, we d…
No, it's literally your problem, if there are things happening with the data that are causing you problems.
If that problem leads the Average Joe to tell politicians to do something about it, is it really AJ's problem anymore?
The problem and consequences to individuals will only really lead to directed consumerism and outrage. Which is going to matter more?
Re: Zuckerberg hits users with the hard truth: You agreed to this
#78[deleted]
Re: Zuckerberg hits users with the hard truth: You agreed to this
#79Anecdote: I was in Australia once and idly flipping through the hotel room's TV channels. I happened upon the Aussie Dateline, their version a popular US program on NBC that does some alright in-depth reporting on special issues.
As an aside: one thing to remember about Australia compared to the US is that the Aussie version of things is like the US version, but in a fun house mirror. Everything is called the same, and is similar, but is just different enough as to give you 'category-vertigo'. The Aussie BBQ is a BBQ, but not really anything like a US BBQ. The Aussie seafood is seafood, but not really anything like US seafood. Aussie radio is radio, but not really anything like US radio. ETC.
The Aussie version of Dateline that I stumbled upon was taking an in-depth look at a rancher in QLD and his issues with an oil/gas company. The rancher quit school at 16 (generally, a wonderful idea in commonwealth countries that the US should import) and became a boxer, then a car salesman, then a rodeo bronco rider, and then a cattle rancher with a wife and 3 young kids. Very importantly, neither he nor his wife could read. His contracts would be signed with an 'X' and a handshake. From what I could tell about QLD law, every contract must be read to a person that cannot read, and a sense of 'good faith' must exist between both parties.
Well, a US oil/gas company came to him and found the black gold under his ranch. They set up many pump-jacks and ruined his grazing land. He quickly went bankrupt as all his cattle died. So he went to court over it. The US company put their hand to their face and basically went: 'Nee-neer-Nee-Neer-Nee-neer, you signed the contract! Ha!' The contract was written in a very favorable way to the company and screwed the rancher. So much was the stress, that the wife tried to commit suicide. Watching that portion of the interview was heartbreaking. Here was a tough, sunburnt man, brought to tears over finding his wife just about to commit the act.
But QLD law was very favorable to the man. The contract was voided as it was created in bad faith and the US company was made to pay to remove the jacks and pay the rancher back for the damages. The Dateline piece was mostly following their attempts in international courts to get the company to pay up, as they had fled Australia in order to skip out on the payment.
Here's my point: What the Zuck is doing, by saying: 'Nee-neer-Nee-Neer-Nee-neer, you signed the contract! Ha!', is a very American thing to do; and it won't stand up in many other countries, or even his own. Just because a contract was clicked on and agreed to in bad faith, doesn't mean that he will be able to hide behind that shield forever. Even if you have a piece of paper that says 'I can be an asshole', and everyone has signed it, doesn't mean that you can be an asshole forever. People don't like assholes and they will get lawyers/barristers in to express that feeling.
Re: Zuckerberg hits users with the hard truth: You agreed to this
#80Dear Zuckerberg, If we consented to this and were still genuinely surprised, its an indication that the consent was not sufficiently informed. This is your problem, not ours. Most of us Average Joes just don't understand the scope of what data collection is possible when we give you access to our phone's features - especially when you couch the access request for quite innocuous and even helpful features. Worse, we d…
No, it's literally your problem, if there are things happening with the data that are causing you problems.
The libertarian attitude only works if you assume everyone is equal. Children are not. And because access to knowledge and wisdom (which includes when and how to seek out knowledge, usually passed on by educated parents.) huge portions of people can be left in a semi-childlike state. Tendency to violence, under-appreciation for exponentials, etc...
The role of parental systems is to mitigate the issues of orphans who become disenfranchised. Entire races can be orphaned from traditional values of they were severed from their cultural root. (slaves) the elderly also often become orphaned and so are a big target for scams.
Excessive and imposed "family" is just a cult but that doesn't mean family values don't at a role in functioning society. There is a limit to individual ability.