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EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#71

Post by bllguo »

gaius wrote: post #61
idbehold wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're kidding, right? You don't think people would be upset when they cannot access Gmail, Google search results, or Google Maps? And a message in each service asking users to contact their representatives if they want access to the services again would be all that is required.

Well we know how people would react, because it happened before when Google was forced out of China. Everyone there uses a local alternative and doesn’t give a fuck about Google anymore

that's BS, Google wasn't anywhere near as widespread in China as it is in Europe.

which is also why Google was fine with leaving China

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#72

Post by jadedhacker »

zapita wrote: post #69
csomar wrote: post #42

I can understand the hatred many people here have toward Google, Facebook or other big gigantic life-controlling entities. The step to remove Google dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives. For example, I started using Fastmail. I'm using some of Apple products like the Calendar and Notes. I'm using Skype for communication. So I'm diversifying a bit though they can engage in data sharing. This reduces t…

"I can understand the hatred many people here have toward Standard Oil or other big gigantic life-controlling entities. The step to remove Standard Oil dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives. For example, I started buying petroleum from a small independent refiner. I'm using some of Royal Dutch Oil Company products like their lubricants and ointments. I'm using whale oil for indoor lighting. So I'm div…

Those Rockafellers are doing just fine even today after Standard Oil was broken up.

In telecommunications, the Baby Bells are doing just fine after the Bell Telephone Co. was broken up. They're just as monopolistic, price fixing, and destructive to privacy as ever.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#73

Post by dragonwriter »

jadedhacker wrote: post #72
zapita wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I can understand the hatred many people here have toward Standard Oil or other big gigantic life-controlling entities. The step to remove Standard Oil dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives. For example, I started buying petroleum from a small independent refiner. I'm using some of Royal Dutch Oil Company products like their lubricants and ointments. I'm using whale oil for indoor lighting. So I'm div…

Those Rockafellers are doing just fine even today after Standard Oil was broken up. In telecommunications, the Baby Bells are doing just fine after the Bell Telephone Co. was broken up. They're just as monopolistic, price fixing, and destructive to privacy as ever.

> In telecommunications, the Baby Bells are doing just fine after the Bell Telephone Co. was broken up.

And they are mostly back together again, too.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#74

Post by zapita »

jadedhacker wrote: post #72
zapita wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I can understand the hatred many people here have toward Standard Oil or other big gigantic life-controlling entities. The step to remove Standard Oil dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives. For example, I started buying petroleum from a small independent refiner. I'm using some of Royal Dutch Oil Company products like their lubricants and ointments. I'm using whale oil for indoor lighting. So I'm div…

Those Rockafellers are doing just fine even today after Standard Oil was broken up. In telecommunications, the Baby Bells are doing just fine after the Bell Telephone Co. was broken up. They're just as monopolistic, price fixing, and destructive to privacy as ever.

> Those Rockafellers are doing just fine even today after Standard Oil was broken up.

Yes, it took a long time to break up Standard Oil, leaving plenty of time for the Rockefellers to amass wealth. What's your point?

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#75

Post by jadedhacker »

idbehold wrote: post #28
flexie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What backlash? Save from a well run PR and lobby campaign by Google, few consumers would mind.

You're kidding, right? You don't think people would be upset when they cannot access Gmail, Google search results, or Google Maps? And a message in each service asking users to contact their representatives if they want access to the services again would be all that is required.

You're kidding right? You don't think people would be upset when they cannot access their funds though their favored stock broker or bank? Each bank would lobby their customers to contact their representatives. They're too big to fail! They're too integral to the economy to consider even breaking them up. /s

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#76

Post by nerfhammer »

simion314 wrote: post #63
csomar wrote: post #42

I can understand the hatred many people here have toward Google, Facebook or other big gigantic life-controlling entities. The step to remove Google dominance is to find, create and nurture alternatives. For example, I started using Fastmail. I'm using some of Apple products like the Calendar and Notes. I'm using Skype for communication. So I'm diversifying a bit though they can engage in data sharing. This reduces t…

Why not apply the existing rules against monopolies and anti competitive actions, what changed since Microsoft almost was broken up? IMO is not competitive to have Google with it's advertising money get involved in 10 or more different activities and killing the companies that were or would have appeared there just because they have money and can run without profit.

Because it's not actually a monopoly. Monopoly means no competition. "Monopoly" just means "big" now apparently.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#77

Post by lovich »

protomyth wrote: post #60
kuschku wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then there’s other solutions you can do. E.g., seizing Google’s copyrights and patents, and selling EU usage rights for them. Or seizing the physical hardware, and selling them (and the software on them) off. There’s many many solutions here. In the past, european governments have already seized airplanes from airlines upon landing, and threatened to auction them off, to pay a single unpaid $500 ticket return fin…

> E.g., seizing Google’s copyrights and patents, and selling EU usage rights for them. Or seizing the physical hardware, and selling them (and the software on them) off. The retaliation from the US government on that one would be pretty epic. I wouldn't want to be an owner of a patent heavy European company at that point. Our current President is quite familiar with eminent domain.

What's the trade balance with IP between the US and the EU? Whichever side is benefiting from that the most, also has the most to lose

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#78

Post by lovich »

kuschku wrote: post #46
matthewmacleod wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which regulations have "resulted in low investment and slow innovation"?

Not regulations, incompatible regulations. If you create a startup in SV, you can easily sell to the whole US. In the EU, you’ll need to obey 28 different laws, 28 different standards, and file 28 different tax forms. This is currently the single biggest hurdle for startups in the EU. The second, of course, is that people seem less willing to throw billions at risky concepts just so one maybe gets big enough.

This happens in the US with state regulations already. The federal government creates floors on behavior, the states can add regulations on top of those.

The real difference is that the EU and it's member nations actually enforce their regulations and don't let situations happen like Uber/ISPS/AirBnB just ignoring laws until they had enough money/influence to force changes to the regulations

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#79

Post by kuschku »

lovich wrote: post #78
kuschku wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not regulations, incompatible regulations. If you create a startup in SV, you can easily sell to the whole US. In the EU, you’ll need to obey 28 different laws, 28 different standards, and file 28 different tax forms. This is currently the single biggest hurdle for startups in the EU. The second, of course, is that people seem less willing to throw billions at risky concepts just so one maybe gets big enough.

This happens in the US with state regulations already. The federal government creates floors on behavior, the states can add regulations on top of those. The real difference is that the EU and it's member nations actually enforce their regulations and don't let situations happen like Uber/ISPS/AirBnB just ignoring laws until they had enough money/influence to force changes to the regulations

> The real difference is that the EU and it's member nations actually enforce their regulations and don't let situations happen like Uber/ISPS/AirBnB just ignoring laws until they had enough money/influence to force changes to the regulations

I mentioned this in a sibling comment – a good example is the EU enforcing VAT laws actually, vs. in the US many online stores simply being located in a state without sales tax and not paying any in the state where the customer lives either.

Re: EU competition chief holds threat of breaking up Google

#80

Post by scholia »

csomar wrote: post #33
kokx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several things the EU can do. First of all, they can freeze and/or seize Google's assets in Europe. Like bank accounts and real estate. Or even more important to Google, all of their European datacenters. The EU can also disallow sales of Google's products, like any android phone. Or products like the chromecast, and don't forget Nest and Google Home. And selling ads in Europe from a foreign country isn't t…

> There are several things the EU can do. First of all, they can freeze and/or seize Google's assets in Europe. Like bank accounts and real estate. Or even more important to Google, all of their European datacenters. > The EU can also disallow sales of Google's products, like any android phone. Or products like the chromecast, and don't forget Nest and Google Home. Without giving them plenty of time to pullout? This…

> Without giving them plenty of time to pullout?

These things take a long time. Google was abusing its search monopoly before the EU started a seven-year investigation that resuled in a $2.7 billion fine ... which it is now appealing.

Google settled with the US in 2013. It agreed to change some of its search practices and got away without a fine.

I'd be surprised if Google didn't know it was abusing its search monopoly. I'd assume it calculated that it was more profitable to keep doing it until compelled to stop.

Either way, a seven-year investigation provides plenty of time to prepare for exit strategies, if required, and it would grossly incompetent not to have prepared for them.

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