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1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

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Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#71

The comments from different people who were allegedly involved in the project seem to contradict each other. So I did a bit of hunting to find out what injuries the bears suffered, if any, and what their fate was. I've managed to find the "white paper" referenced by one of the commenters: Impact Acceleration Stress, 1961 [1]. There is also a feel-good propaganda movie that you can watch, detailing the program while m…

> It doesn't specify exactly how many bears were used in testing, but I counted 7 from the tests they did (6 ejecting from the jet, one on a sled), plus one chimpanzee ejected form the jet. I highly doubt there were hundreds of bears, they cannot have been cheap to acquire or easy to keep.

The number of seven bears fits the comment by Robert Sudderth but isn't a direct contradiction of the other comment by Lauren Anderson that says:

> 'Several hundred' bears were acquired for this purpose, all of which were destroyed 'in or after the testing process, by the testing process or by gun shot to the heart to preserve cranial damage from impacts'.

'Several hundred' and 'in or after the testing process, by the testing process or by gun shot to the heart to preserve cranial damage from impacts' are obviously quotes from the mentioned whitepaper and both make sense. The part between them is in my opinion a misinterpretation by the commenter. Given that the bears had to fulfill some obvious requirements (size and weight) and a lot of not so obvious ones (healthy, no previous injuries, etc.), it wouldn't surprise me if they acquired and examined several hundred bears for the project but ended up using only a few.

I believe the paper you linked to is not the one from the comment above because I couldn't find the quotes. It's also probably not the one describing the experiments in the original post. The original post talks about "The first live, inflight supersonic test of the escape capsule [which] took place on March 21, 1962". The experiments in the paper you linked took place in 1961 or before. The data it contains regarding the bears are measurements of drop test from various heights (9'9" to 14') and not data from in flight tests.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#73
post #60
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Animal testing cruelty wasn't really being thought about heavily in post WWII military aerospace development Considering that the endpoint is machines killing actual people, it would be the height of hypocrisy in my books for them to care about "animal testing cruelty".

By "actual people" do you mean "who cares about animals dying in horrendous ways when people will be dying?"

More precisely, if a project is about making killing machines for people, that it might kill some animals to test them is the least of its moral problems.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#74
post #70
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe people were misconstruing "horrible science" as something other than low quality science? It would only be "low quality" if it didn't fit their purpose. Which was some rough estimate, not to get the final word of whether humans survive an ejection.

Eggs or feta would have been a better choice.

Only density wise. Eggs or feta don't have a heart, brain matter, muscles, bones and other such stuff they'd liked to see their response, one presumes.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "If we hadn't experimented on animals, you might not even be alive today." That might apply to some life-saving drugs. Cosmetics and weapons are not medicines - far from it.

If it weren't for some weapons, you might not be alive today either.

Survivor bias? If it weren't for some weapons, a lot of people might be alive today.

Claiming that weapons save more people that they kill is simply illogical.

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it weren't for some weapons, you might not be alive today either.

Survivor bias? If it weren't for some weapons, a lot of people might be alive today. Claiming that weapons save more people that they kill is simply illogical.

Where exactly was that claim made?

Re: 1962 U.S. Military Ejects Bear from B-58 to Test Escape Capsule

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Survivor bias? If it weren't for some weapons, a lot of people might be alive today. Claiming that weapons save more people that they kill is simply illogical.

Where exactly was that claim made?

> If it weren't for some weapons, you might not be alive today either.

...unless you are implying that this is about saving me personally at the expense of other people lives.

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