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Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises and the Vagus Nerve (2017)

psychologytoday.com

71–80 of 93 posts

Re: Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises and the Vagus Nerve (2017)

#71
post #60

People! please be careful with these casual references to breathing exercises and other mind-body techniques. Breathing changes can hurt you. Please seek an experienced teacher.. for example, another post mentioned a cessation of breathing rhythm as a gateway.. BS, and dangerous too. Blood pressure, cardiac rhythm, mental balance, are all deeply effected. thanks and take care

The key word is spontaneous breath retention. Google "kevala kumbhaka". Not BS at all, in fact it is a primary aim of the breathing exercises known as pranayama and is very widely documented within yogic texts, both old and current.

While breath retention is part of pranayama techniques, they are NOT beginner techniques, and misuse certainly does have the capacity to do damage.

Consider the inner breath as a pneumatic tool. Can you imagine holding in a powerful sneeze or cough and hurting yourself? That’s the power of the diaphragm. Getting it under control cannot be done overnight, and retention techniques increase the risk of accidental injury.

Re: Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises and the Vagus Nerve (2017)

#72
post #70
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"""What kind of negative side-effects are you referring to?""" When one enters that stage of yoga, if they've been a good little yogi and done the preliminary physical preparations (which may take decades (or you hit the jackpot and are born into a magnificent constitution, maybe a few years)), they can begin the real 'yoga', which is mainly just seated meditation. It is akin to performing surgery on the central nerv…

This sounds.. I don’t know, made up? Giving yourself MS by meditating? Isn’t it more likely that in such cases the vague nerve got damaged or a forgotten trauma reactivated? Do you have any references you can point me to?

MS is an autoimmune disorder. Claiming that you could voluntarily give yourself the condition through counterproductive meditation is emblematic of the general mystic nonsense of yogiism. You'll never be able to levitate, either.

Re: Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises and the Vagus Nerve (2017)

#73
post #5

Yoga (proper yoga, not the gymnastics they do in most gyms) is all about stimulating the vagus nerve and several others. The "locks" (bandhas) and various breathing exercises (pranayama) all work on it in different ways and stimulate different parts of the nerve. If you really want to juice it up add in some breath retention. Eventually you reach a sort of homeostatic state where your breath just naturally suspends,…

As someone who has been programming for 20 years, and experienced a lot of stress from it, it seems to be like I have been unwittingly practising 'anti yoga.' When I code difficult problems, my breathing becomes light and shallow and from the chest: almost the way you would breathe if nervously anticipating some outcome. The physical posture is more often than not slumped in a chair, and locked into a narrow range of…

One thing I've found helpful is the training I've done for freediving, which is a lot about relaxation and breathing. And while I've done a lot of "wet" training (exercises in the water), a lot of the exercises can be done "dry" (sitting or lying down) and there's a number of apps on the various app stores (search 'apnea') that will guide you through the necessary breathing exercises.

By building the techniques to do 5-8 min breath holds, you learn to almost reflexively enter a very relaxed state that lets your body use oxygen more slowly. So now when I start feeling stressed, I inhale fully, hold for 3-4 min and then do a ~30 second exhale and all my stress just melts away. As a bonus, I don't get winded as easily and I recover from exercise to a normal breathing pattern much more quickly than I used to.

Re: Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises and the Vagus Nerve (2017)

#74
post #70
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"""What kind of negative side-effects are you referring to?""" When one enters that stage of yoga, if they've been a good little yogi and done the preliminary physical preparations (which may take decades (or you hit the jackpot and are born into a magnificent constitution, maybe a few years)), they can begin the real 'yoga', which is mainly just seated meditation. It is akin to performing surgery on the central nerv…

This sounds.. I don’t know, made up? Giving yourself MS by meditating? Isn’t it more likely that in such cases the vague nerve got damaged or a forgotten trauma reactivated? Do you have any references you can point me to?

There are potential negative effects, but the above is... Well, yeah, here is some more legit info on the subject: https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/does-meditati...

Re: Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises and the Vagus Nerve (2017)

#75
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has been programming for 20 years, and experienced a lot of stress from it, it seems to be like I have been unwittingly practising 'anti yoga.' When I code difficult problems, my breathing becomes light and shallow and from the chest: almost the way you would breathe if nervously anticipating some outcome. The physical posture is more often than not slumped in a chair, and locked into a narrow range of…

One thing I've found helpful is the training I've done for freediving, which is a lot about relaxation and breathing. And while I've done a lot of "wet" training (exercises in the water), a lot of the exercises can be done "dry" (sitting or lying down) and there's a number of apps on the various app stores (search 'apnea') that will guide you through the necessary breathing exercises. By building the techniques to do…

Hold for 3-4 minutes?!?! I feel like I'm going to die if I hold my breath for more than about 30 seconds

Re: Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises and the Vagus Nerve (2017)

#76
post #70
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"""What kind of negative side-effects are you referring to?""" When one enters that stage of yoga, if they've been a good little yogi and done the preliminary physical preparations (which may take decades (or you hit the jackpot and are born into a magnificent constitution, maybe a few years)), they can begin the real 'yoga', which is mainly just seated meditation. It is akin to performing surgery on the central nerv…

This sounds.. I don’t know, made up? Giving yourself MS by meditating? Isn’t it more likely that in such cases the vague nerve got damaged or a forgotten trauma reactivated? Do you have any references you can point me to?

yeah i didn't mean it literally! I thought starting the phrase with "Think X, Y" just to give a flavour of how one can mess up their internal nervous system functioning. Of course MS is different , but some of the symptoms that may arise from screwing up your kundalini energy: loss of control over nerves, involuntary shakes, toes locked in a curl for the rest of your life etc... just trying to give an overall view. language is so poor at communicating experience esp. when its dealing with inner transformation. Like the other comment says though, yes, watchout for charlatans and investigate the practice for yourself, never take a text at face value. goodluck with this lifetime's journey if you decide to heed the call.

Re: Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises and the Vagus Nerve (2017)

#77
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds.. I don’t know, made up? Giving yourself MS by meditating? Isn’t it more likely that in such cases the vague nerve got damaged or a forgotten trauma reactivated? Do you have any references you can point me to?

MS is an autoimmune disorder. Claiming that you could voluntarily give yourself the condition through counterproductive meditation is emblematic of the general mystic nonsense of yogiism. You'll never be able to levitate, either.

Sorry, I wasn't "claiming" it gives a person MS, more so i used the word "Think" as a colloquial sentence starter to get the person's mindset visualizing how certain dis-eases can alter a nervous system's function. Esp at the later stages of the practice, usually after decades of sense refinement from body scanning.

Re: Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises and the Vagus Nerve (2017)

#78
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've found helpful is the training I've done for freediving, which is a lot about relaxation and breathing. And while I've done a lot of "wet" training (exercises in the water), a lot of the exercises can be done "dry" (sitting or lying down) and there's a number of apps on the various app stores (search 'apnea') that will guide you through the necessary breathing exercises. By building the techniques to do…

Hold for 3-4 minutes?!?! I feel like I'm going to die if I hold my breath for more than about 30 seconds

That's because you haven't trained.

When I first started, despite swimming on a fairly regular basis, the longest I could hold for was 90 seconds and to hold that long was agony. But in doing the exercises, learning to relax during a hold and learning that the feeling in the diaphragm isn't a lack of oxygen but, rather, a build up of CO2 which doesn't need to be obeyed, I improved. Over the course of the next 6 months doing 15-25 minutes 3-4 mornings a week, I got my max time up to just over 7 minutes. That requires a full breathe-up, lying prone and I can only achieve that if I haven't eaten in a while since digestion seems to require oxygen. I do the 3-4 minute holds because they're about my limit when sitting upright and not going through my full preparation.

With training, I'm fairly confident I can get anyone under 60 who's reasonably healthy to the point where they can hold for 4 minutes. Really fit people in their 20s can usually train up to 8-10 min holds. What truly gifted apnea specialists can do is nothing short of astonishing [1].

To start, the first thing that most people can learn pretty quickly is to resist the urge to breathe. When CO2 builds up, it causes involuntary contractions of the diaphragm. These usually start to occur 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through a person's maximum hold time, but don't signify an actual need to breathe. So a good rule of thumb is to shoot for double the time when you notice your first contraction. But to ignore what feels like a reflex to breathe takes practice, and that's where the exercises fit in.

My favorite exercise is a form of what's known as a CO2 table...an exercise where you're never short of oxygen, but you don't give your body adequate opportunity to expel CO2 and it builds up. The exercise I do follows the form inhale 1x, hold 4x, exhale 2x where x is whatever level you're currently at. In your case, if you can hold for 30 seconds, you'd start at around a 4 second level, which means you'd inhale for 4 seconds, hold for 16 seconds and then exhale for 8 seconds. Repeat that cycle for, to start, about 15 minutes. I like to lie down when I do my exercise, but some people like to sit, just make sure to relax and breathe normally for about a minute before starting. As you improve, you can up the level while maintaining the 1x-4x-2x ratio and also increase the overall time. My current timing is level 17 seconds and do the cycle for 25-30 min.

Eventually, after building CO2 tolerance, you work on what's known as O2 tables, which accustom the body to lower levels of oxygen, but those are more advanced and should probably be done with supervision. Two other notes to anyone wanting to experiment with this kind of thing...never hyperventilate before attempting a breathe hold, which purges CO2 from the body and can result in actually running out of O2 before the CO2 build up causes an urge to breathe, and never do wet training (in the water) without a qualified training partner. The last one should go without saying, but some people still push their limits and drown.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L89kY5ewgqU

Re: Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises and the Vagus Nerve (2017)

#79
post #45
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gopi Krishna is the canonical worst-case scenario of an unprepared Kundalini awakening, so check out his "Kundalini: Evolutionary Energy in Man". I've heard that if you're careful, you should have an easier ride. However some people can have spontaneous awakenings, sometimes following traumatic (near death) events. One guy suggested there was a link between the adrenals and kicking off this process. The endocrine sys…

Wow, sounds like some fascinating side effects (weirdly shroom-like, actually) that I definitely would not have expected. I guess they're vaguely related to "overstimulating" the parasympathetic nervous system. I'm "into" mindfulness stuff as a mental exercise but now I'm feeling intrigued about experimenting with the breathing stuff (and generally the more physical aspects of Yoga) more. So thanks for the background…

There's also the book that started it for me: Path Notes of an American Ninja Master. The author's description of his awakening is pretty intense. It also contains important cautions, some of which he ignored. Worth reading if you're into chi kung, yoga, meditation or martial arts.

Re: Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises and the Vagus Nerve (2017)

#80

My yoga teacher always says this is the most important part of yoga. She says it's why she rarely gets sick. She was delighted to hear it was one of the top stories on HN.

Make sure to tell her that I also rarely get sick, without the bother of doing yoga.

I used to be like that, until I got kids that went to school.

It's possible that you're just not coming into contact with a lot of viruses (maybe the same for the yoga teacher).

Funny story of a friend of mine: had no kids, and started dating a pre-school teacher. First year they dated, he was sick 50% of the time.

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