Earlier quoted context omitted.
I found your last paragraph especially well phrased! You're also on point regarding the CAA records. But to me the current system still feels too reactionary. I'd love to see a system where we need to put less trust in all third parties playing by the rules pinkie-promise. Diginotar, StartSSL and Symantec are all examples of CAs gone wild, and I think we've just seen the tip of the iceberg yet.
And all examples of CAs essentially no longer in business (or bought up by DigiCert).
DigiCert Statement on Trustico Certificate Revocation
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Re: DigiCert Statement on Trustico Certificate Revocation
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
And all examples of CAs essentially no longer in business (or bought up by DigiCert).
Yes, but after the damage was done and only because the damage happened to be uncovered.
The CA/B mailing list can't do much about shady behaviour they don't know anything about.
I do trust in Mozilla to ensure that the game rules for CAs are strict enough that my trust in the green lock isn't 0. It's not 100% either but it's above 50%. When I connect to a website and it has SSL, I'm fairly certain it's the right place.
Most likely there will never be a replacement for it, any PKI requires some third party to vouch for an endpoint otherwise you get easy MitM (I believe there is a proof floating around somewhere from the area of Signal Theory).
Re: DigiCert Statement on Trustico Certificate Revocation
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue is trust. Can you trust that the other end of the DNSCurve system is not operated by Mr. Evil? Can you do that automatically, ie, without human intervention at all? The CA-based PKI system allows one to trust that the endpoint of a website is who they say they are and not a middlebox manipulating traffic. Additionally guarantees are available through EV certificates which also tell you who is operating the…
"Can you do that automatically, ie, without human intervention at all?" Why not use something like SSH authentication keys to verify the endpoint? (e.g. ed25519 which can be generated very fast) Consider the vast number of endpoints that are now currently being verified using authentication keys. For something like encryption, I believe some human intervention will always be required. Only a human can answer the ques…
But the average user has no idea if the website saying it's paypal really is paypal. Could be payscam instead, operated by Mr. Untrustworthy, AZ.
SSH works because the servers and endpoints you connect to are usually endpoints the user has setup themselves and are in the local area network.
>Unfortunately for users, this is delegating the intervention to humans that have no "skin in the game".
CA's do have skin in the game. If they fuck it up too often nobody will trust them anymore to verify trust. See: StartSSL, Symantec and soon Trustico.
If the encryption is defeated then the CA's entire business model collapses. The CA's have strong incentives to not fuck it up or not get caught doing so.
With Certificate Transparency we have tools to catch anyone trying to not get caught cheating.
>Common sense suggests this is the wrong approach. (And that's ignoring the ever-increasing number of exposed flaws and "incidents" regarding www commercial CAs, like the one being discussed in this thread.)
To verify the key of a endpoint you either have to decide yourself if it is trustworthy or rely on a third party.
If you don't verify with a third party and you don't ask the user if the connection is okay, MitM is trivial.
If you ask the user, social engineering can make MitM trivial.
A third party will be required in some way, be it a CA or the Web of Trust or something else. However, the CA model has been the only one that successfully operated at this scale. The WoT has largely degraded to TOFU for 90% of users.
Re: DigiCert Statement on Trustico Certificate Revocation
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Can you do that automatically, ie, without human intervention at all?" Why not use something like SSH authentication keys to verify the endpoint? (e.g. ed25519 which can be generated very fast) Consider the vast number of endpoints that are now currently being verified using authentication keys. For something like encryption, I believe some human intervention will always be required. Only a human can answer the ques…
SSH authentication is TOFU, trust on first use. The user will be asked to confirm if the endpoint is legit. But the average user has no idea if the website saying it's paypal really is paypal. Could be payscam instead, operated by Mr. Untrustworthy, AZ. SSH works because the servers and endpoints you connect to are usually endpoints the user has setup themselves and are in the local area network. >Unfortunately for u…
Re: DigiCert Statement on Trustico Certificate Revocation
#75Re: DigiCert Statement on Trustico Certificate Revocation
#76Does anyone know the name of Trustico's CEO?