Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

smh.com.au

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 152 posts

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#71

Post by xg15 »

toasterlovin wrote: post #49
loverofthings wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In similar ways, majority of people that believe in climate change do nothing (or barely anything) to fight it. No one is reducing their heating/cooling, no one is changing their diet, no one is measuring their heating patterns and trying to optimize it (by no one I mean barely anyone). People still want their 24/7 AC, their steaks, their huge cars, their big heat inefficient houses, their plane flights etc. No one d…

It's even worse than that: the small percentage of people who have changed their consumption patterns out of concern for the environment are probably having zero or negative impact. For instance, the following products are worse for the environment than their alternatives: 1. Hand-crafted, locally produced goods 2. Non-factory farmed food 3. Organic food

So we should exclusively eat factory-farmed food to save the environment?

Despite factory-farming being one of the main drivers of CO2?

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#72

Post by School-Cotton »

brentm wrote: post #34
briga wrote: post #4

Using events like this to illustrate that global warming is happening is about as scientifically significant as when Trump used the recent US cold snap to imply that global warming isn't happening. I'm not saying climate change doesn't exist--it certainly does--but outlying events like this aren't by themselves particularly unusual. "Normal", after all, is at the top of a bell curve, and deviations from normal should…

At this point believing or not believing in climate change is analogous to religion. I have trouble believing any facts or data would swing a significant portion of either side of the debate. Denying climate change is easy. We're not going to see places like New York City move swiftly underwater and the problem is so abstract it's easy to call BS. Short of Trump changing his mind and using his super power of convinci…

> We're not going to see places like New York City move swiftly underwater

How do you know?

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#73

Post by derriz »

zipwitch wrote: post #36
brentm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point believing or not believing in climate change is analogous to religion. I have trouble believing any facts or data would swing a significant portion of either side of the debate. Denying climate change is easy. We're not going to see places like New York City move swiftly underwater and the problem is so abstract it's easy to call BS. Short of Trump changing his mind and using his super power of convinci…

Climate change denialism has more in common with Flat Earth Theory than religion of any stripe. (Which makes so many Americans buying into it all the more frighting.)

I think religion is a better comparison or at least an aspect of religion. Climate change denialism strikes me as having similar features with creationism. Both require believing in a vast global conspiracy of compromised academics - motivated by atheism or liberalism. Both willfully dismiss scientific evidence and consensus if it challenges their world view. But they will proudly admire the very rare academic (invariably not qualified in climate science or biology) who - outside of normal scientific process - become celebrities by providing bias reinforcement.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#74

Post by pharrington »

oldcynic wrote: post #64
pharrington wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since human cognition is based from previous cognitive state and interpretation of sensory input, precise communication requires mapping the communicative symbols as closely as possible to your desired semantics. Earth itself will do just fine at any temperature that's below literally evaporating. Various life on this planet has evolved to thrive in wildly disparate climates, and short of complete eradication of an e…

My starting point with that question is to say humans are best suited to the global climate under which they evolved. Muck about with that at your peril. Try it out on the hot-spare planet first please. Attempting to adapt the environment will have unforeseen, probably serious, consequences. I for one hope we do not try, or have no choice but to try, geoengineering attempting to avoid catastrophe.

I completely agree with your first point. One of the key problems is that humans are the most adept species in billions of years at adapting the environment. Over time, the more likely a thing is to happen, the more that thing does happen. Adaptation is most likely to occur in the form of adding energy, and as Applejinx noted elsewhere in this thread, adding energy to a chaotic system increases its degree of deviation.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#76

Post by ShorsHammer »

microtonal wrote: post #70
toasterlovin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse than that: the small percentage of people who have changed their consumption patterns out of concern for the environment are probably having zero or negative impact. For instance, the following products are worse for the environment than their alternatives: 1. Hand-crafted, locally produced goods 2. Non-factory farmed food 3. Organic food

There are also simple things that one can do, that have an impact. For example, one could go on holiday to a local destination rather than flying half the world. Or you could cycle to work rather than traveling by car every day. (Sure, in the grand scheme of things, these will make small differences, but we have to cut our use of fossil fuel everywhere.)

Having one less child has far more of an impact than all of those lifestyle changes combined.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#77

Post by xg15 »

microtonal wrote: post #70
toasterlovin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse than that: the small percentage of people who have changed their consumption patterns out of concern for the environment are probably having zero or negative impact. For instance, the following products are worse for the environment than their alternatives: 1. Hand-crafted, locally produced goods 2. Non-factory farmed food 3. Organic food

There are also simple things that one can do, that have an impact. For example, one could go on holiday to a local destination rather than flying half the world. Or you could cycle to work rather than traveling by car every day. (Sure, in the grand scheme of things, these will make small differences, but we have to cut our use of fossil fuel everywhere.)

Or you could try to affect the things that do matter in the grand scheme of things: E.g , demand more regulation for CO2-heavy industries, find ways to support CO2-neutral energy production, demand anti-deforestation clauses in trade agreements, etc.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#78

Post by noiv »

briga wrote: post #4

Using events like this to illustrate that global warming is happening is about as scientifically significant as when Trump used the recent US cold snap to imply that global warming isn't happening. I'm not saying climate change doesn't exist--it certainly does--but outlying events like this aren't by themselves particularly unusual. "Normal", after all, is at the top of a bell curve, and deviations from normal should…

> bell curve

The thing is the curve is moving towards higher temperatures and we get unexpected deviations more on one end than the other. And have you considered these events may be not significant - yet, because the science department is hopelessly understaffed?

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#79

Post by shoo »

poster123 wrote: post #42

Doesn't warming of the coldest parts of the world mean there will be more usable land? I have read that global warming could have benefits for countries such as Russia.

Yes. Also, some regions of land that are currently usable will become less usable. I think some analyses/forecasts of this also talk about the "quality" of the land involved for agriculture (it's more than just a binary usable / not usable distinction).

There's a book discussing the business opportunities being created by global warming - "windfall" by McKenzie Funk.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#80

Post by jtzhou »

mirimir wrote: post #57
loverofthings wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In similar ways, majority of people that believe in climate change do nothing (or barely anything) to fight it. No one is reducing their heating/cooling, no one is changing their diet, no one is measuring their heating patterns and trying to optimize it (by no one I mean barely anyone). People still want their 24/7 AC, their steaks, their huge cars, their big heat inefficient houses, their plane flights etc. No one d…

That's not true. Many people in "developed" countries reduce their energy use, and their use of energy-intensive products, in order to help reduce climate forcing. And they've done so for decades. However, it is true that too few people in "developed" countries do that. And it's also true that too many people in "less-developed" countries lust after energy-intensive lifestyles. So overall, its unlikely that overall c…

Or live wisely so you have the financial means and health to move you and your family elsewhere when need arrives, probably in our lifetimes for 80% of the world.
Post reply on HN