Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web • Hacker News Board

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#71

Post by hungerstrike » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #14

whyagaindavid wrote: post #8

Genuine question: Why do people view AMP as a threat, whereas many Apple's formats/compatibility are non-standard? Is it because many accept privacy over openness? Example: Apple news or iTunes or Messages

Fun to watch whataboutism move from politics into computing. Personally I'm about as hostile to Apple News as I am to AMP for a lot of the same reasons. And I also don't love Apple's embrace & extend approach to SMS. I guess there was a time when I was concerned about iTunes and DRM and the network effects of an Apple music ecosystem, but I mostly stopped buying stuff through iTMS that I could get elsewhere about a d…

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Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#72

Post by mrtksn » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 3:28 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #48

mrtksn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it invalidates your opinion but you’re free to hold the opinion that it doesn’t

So all opinions based on a political precept (such as valuing the open web) are inherently invalid? Pure silliness.

What I mean is that it's not a valid opinion from UX perspective, it's idealistic but the acute problem is purely technical.

Therefore your opinion is not users opinion but an opinion of a person who wants to shape the society in a certain way.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#73

Post by beojan » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

hungerstrike wrote: post #71

wwweston wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun to watch whataboutism move from politics into computing. Personally I'm about as hostile to Apple News as I am to AMP for a lot of the same reasons. And I also don't love Apple's embrace & extend approach to SMS. I guess there was a time when I was concerned about iTunes and DRM and the network effects of an Apple music ecosystem, but I mostly stopped buying stuff through iTMS that I could get elsewhere about a d…

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Whataboutism isn't when someone complains that Y is bad too. It's when someone asks why you're complaining about X given Y is similar in some way.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#74

Post by TPPOW0020 » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 5:16 PM UTC

hungerstrike wrote: post #71

wwweston wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun to watch whataboutism move from politics into computing. Personally I'm about as hostile to Apple News as I am to AMP for a lot of the same reasons. And I also don't love Apple's embrace & extend approach to SMS. I guess there was a time when I was concerned about iTunes and DRM and the network effects of an Apple music ecosystem, but I mostly stopped buying stuff through iTMS that I could get elsewhere about a d…

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Regardless of what we call it, it's not helpful to defend Google by saying Apple is worse. It doesn't contribute to the discussion. Just deflects.

Now if someone was bringing up Apple to draw similarities between what they do and what Google does, or to make distinctions, I can see how that would enrich people's understanding of the issue.

But that's not what happened in the comment in question.

If we're not careful, this whole thread will be a pissing contest between Google and Apple fans. And we'll forget what's really important (the fact that companies are trying to claim the open web as their own territory)

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#75

Post by TPPOW0020 » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 5:19 PM UTC

tanilama wrote: post #7

The title and article feels like hyperbole: As user, I love AMP. It is much faster and lighter. God knows what javascript is running behind those websites that drives my CPU usage to 100%.

It's great that you love AMP. There were probably people who were happy with Ma Bell's phone service too. Monopolies usually deliver efficient service, at least for as long as they have to.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#76

Post by ocdtrekkie » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

sseth wrote: post #60

r3bl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't all of the companies that we are usually associating with doing bad things for the web (Microsoft, Google, Apple) now also pushing PWAs on their platforms? Google seemed far ahead of the push, Microsoft and Apple are currently on the run to bring them to Edge and Safari, and Mozilla introduced them to mobile Firefox less than a month ago. And isn't there more of an incentive towards structuring the web coming…

Of the IT giants, Google has the most to lose from a closed web. The rise of mobile apps and walled gardens is a direct threat to their search business model. So the argument that Google would threaten the open web seems strange, on purely selfish grounds. AMP seems to be an attempt to keep the web relevant. In countries like India (where i live), most new users access the web via the mobile, and the experience can b…

How so? Google controls over 85% of the devices those mobile apps run on, and they sell ads through those apps as well.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#77

Post by nugi » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 12:48 AM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #36

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what are you trying to say? Why are you telling me "It's not your god given right to have users and make money"? Why do you think this has any connection to our conversation?

Why do you think that web businesses are complaining about AMP but not the users? I'm yet to see a user that's not happy with AMP. The web community acts as if the users are a commodity like oil and Google just made a change in its flow and now begging Google to make it flow like before to accommodate their business setup and promising that from now on they will be nicer to the commodity and store it in golden barrel…

AMP sucks. I actively avoid it due to the inferior usability. Now never use that excuse ever again. Its not even a little honest.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#78

Post by nugi » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 12:50 AM UTC

dx034 wrote: post #57

dmitriid wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user, I hate AMP: it breaks links, it breaks browser behaviour on mobile

But to be fair, many pages break links and browser behaviour without AMP as well.

Yes, but why enforce the poor experince?

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#79

Post by dmitriid » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 11:08 AM UTC

wor3q wrote: post #61

LocutusOfBorges wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is particularly noticable on iOS- AMP pages break iOS' standard page scrolling ballistics, for some reason. It makes them feel non-native in a particularly egregious way.

Wasn't this a safari bug?

In a sense: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14386292

However, it was AMP team's conscious decision to implement handling of AMP the way they did: divs with overflow, hiding links etc.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#80

Post by hungerstrike » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

TPPOW0020 wrote: post #74

hungerstrike wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Regardless of what we call it, it's not helpful to defend Google by saying Apple is worse. It doesn't contribute to the discussion. Just deflects. Now if someone was bringing up Apple to draw similarities between what they do and what Google does, or to make distinctions, I can see how that would enrich people's understanding of the issue. But that's not what happened in the comment in question. If we're not careful,…

Oh please. This is not a fucking courtroom and it's not a structured debate.

People saying "what about X" is useful for adding perspective.

Furthermore, adding "ism" to normal conversational mechanics just because you think it's "a bad thing" is pretty cringe.