Google and Facebook are watching our every move online • Hacker News Board

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#71

Post by ucaetano » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 6:46 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #17

ucaetano wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, none of those are exclusive or even new. Your credit rating company has far more info on you that you didn't sign up for. And AFAIK, and from what I heard from friends working at google, everything is linked to a google gaia account, if you don't have one, you don't exist for them. Have you deleted your Google and Fb account yet?

Your credit rating company has far more info They’re tracking my location and correlating that, ads seen, spending patterns, web activity, who I associate with, and all the rest? I call shenanigans. if you don't have one, you don't exist for them Except as a shadow profile.

> They’re tracking my location and correlating that, ads seen, spending patterns, web activity, who I associate with, and all the rest?

But you agreed to that, didn't you?

Do you remember agreeing to your credit rating agency collecting your info?

> Except as a shadow profile.

Interesting, source?

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#72

Post by ryanianian » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 6:48 PM UTC

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

Ultimately the problem is that their incentives aren't really aligned with yours. They're only incentivized to do the absolute minimum it takes to keep you around. As they control more and more of your world, they've increased your cost to leave and they can do even less to benefit you explcitly.

I like google's services. What I want is the ability to pay for them and not be a part of the product they sell in ads. Basically a freemium model.

I don't know how much money in ad revenue I earn google, but I'd probably happily pay it for a more transparent, less sketchy, and more commonly-aligned product. (This would also give me recourse for all the times the google services I rely on go down....)

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#73

Post by LeviEster » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

> I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data)

The more info someone has on you (your preferences, habits, how price sensitive you are to certain products, ...), the more disadvantaged you are negotiating with them.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#74

Post by gaius » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #29

gaius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. It will take legislative action including no-knock raids on DCs and offices to rein them in. Someone in the NHS needs to be held responsible too.

It's interesting that you trust a government to execute a no-knock raid on a private company's datacenter (and extract only the information that is relevant without drag-netting unrelated private information) more than you trust that private company to secure your data (an exercise they have a vested economic interest in accomplishing). At the end of the day, all of these questions always come down to trust and just…

I don’t mean extracting it - I mean destroying it.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#75

Post by resu_nimda » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

SirFatty wrote: post #61

resu_nimda wrote: post #59

Google and Facebook also use your data as input for increasingly sophisticated AI algorithms that put you in a filter bubble — an alternate digital universe that controls what you see in their products, based on what their algorithms think you are most likely to click on. These echo chambers distort people's reality, creating a myriad of unintended consequences such as increasing societal polarization. How is this an…

So are you suggesting that it isn't much, much worse now?

Much worse relative to what? An actual point in the past where people’s lives were less “bubble-y?” Or a hypothetical scenario where Facebook and Google took it upon themselves to upend the natural tendency of people to prefer identifying and associating with familiar, like-minded people and ideas?

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#76

Post by mtgx » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

That's great for you. But do you not agree that every user should be properly educated on what Google does with her data without having to read through pages of legalese, and then she should also be able to give her consent for that tracking and data collection?

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#77

Post by rhizome » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 6:54 PM UTC

resu_nimda wrote: post #59

Google and Facebook also use your data as input for increasingly sophisticated AI algorithms that put you in a filter bubble — an alternate digital universe that controls what you see in their products, based on what their algorithms think you are most likely to click on. These echo chambers distort people's reality, creating a myriad of unintended consequences such as increasing societal polarization. How is this an…

I think it’s worth asking what impact they’ve really had on this basic facet of life

Absolutely zero, and have arguably made it worse.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#78

Post by mediaserf » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 6:55 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #30

randomString1 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish that was enough. The articles that show up here on HN from time to time make me think they can cross-reference data and fingerprint you through many data sources and more advanced tracking (things that we discover from time to time like canvas, css). People that have you on their contact list, your e-mails that hit their servers even when you don't have a Gmail, DNS, CDN, cloud services, your phone unless you…

How difficult would it be to defeat fingerprinting by injection of noise? I.e. your browser configuration/characteristics change every now and then by a tiny amount.

I use an extension called Canvas Defender that does this. You can have it create a new "fingerprint" every so often. It also pops up an alert when a site requests a fingerprint. I believe Facebook uses the fingerprint as part of the browser profile to help combat fraudulent logins, as I get many more "new browser" emails from them with this extension than I did prior to installing it.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#79

Post by jankeymeulen » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

ryanianian wrote: post #72

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

Ultimately the problem is that their incentives aren't really aligned with yours. They're only incentivized to do the absolute minimum it takes to keep you around. As they control more and more of your world, they've increased your cost to leave and they can do even less to benefit you explcitly. I like google's services. What I want is the ability to pay for them and not be a part of the product they sell in ads. Ba…

2016 had $90B revenues and 1.5B 30d active users (for YouTube) so $60 per year would be a good guess.

(Disclaimer: I'm a Googler but I just got these numbers from public statements. No way I'm well paid enough to be able to see more detailed numbers. :-D )

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#80

Post by ucaetano » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

ryanianian wrote: post #72

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

Ultimately the problem is that their incentives aren't really aligned with yours. They're only incentivized to do the absolute minimum it takes to keep you around. As they control more and more of your world, they've increased your cost to leave and they can do even less to benefit you explcitly. I like google's services. What I want is the ability to pay for them and not be a part of the product they sell in ads. Ba…

"Ultimately the problem is that their incentives aren't really aligned with yours. They're only incentivized to do the absolute minimum it takes to keep you around. As they control more and more of your world, they've increased your cost to leave and they can do even less to benefit you explcitly."

Are you criticizing Google or companies in general? Because your criticism applies to any company in the world.

> I like google's services. What I want is the ability to pay for them and not be a part of the product they sell in ads. Basically a freemium model.

Get a corporate gSuite account, they have been around for quite a while.