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Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

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Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#71

Post by jmull »

ronnybrendel2 wrote: post #11

Is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_arithmetic ? I.e. you carry the lower and upper bound all the way?

In the patent he contrasts his "apparatus" with interval arithmetic. He says IA greatly increase computation (while his method doesn't) and requires twice as much storage (while his method doesn't.

To me, it looks like a specific mechanism for encoding the bounds and scale of error into a floating point representation, along with a pipeline for processing operations on operands of this form (presumably efficiently). So to me it looks like a specific variant of IA.

It looks like the purpose is to be implemented as an alternative to conventional floating point libraries and CPU modules. E.g., Intel might license this and add a floating point module based on this + instructions to access it to a future CPU. (Well, even if it's great and all is as advertised, and proves to be generally useful, I'm not sure it would jump right into the CPU. It would probably have to grow more organically first, but that's another discussion.)

I mean, I have no idea if this does all of what it says or if it does, whether that would prove to be generally useful enough to make it out of niche cases.

But it's interesting.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#72

Post by dekhn »

wolfgke wrote: post #66
dekhn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about them? You're free to discover new things, and not patent them, instead publishing them. If you have a problem with patents, take it up with the legislature and the judicial system, but there's no reason to attack inventors for using a common legal system for protecting their intellectual property.

> If you have a problem with patents, take it up with the legislature and the judicial system, but there's no reason to attack inventors for using a common legal system for protecting their intellectual property. Many people attack companies that use tax loopholes even though the government does "allow" these loopholes. So if one is opposed to something, but it is formally allowed, one should attack both sides: The p…

OK it sounds like you just want to have an internet argument to win internet points.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#73

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

neilsimp1 wrote: post #3
speps wrote: post #2

And immediately patents it... so no one else can use it. EDIT: and for some other methods: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unum_%28number_format%29 , particularly the latest one being the Posit method: http://superfri.org/superfri/article/download/137/232 EDIT2: of course other people can license it, but the other way to bring a new floating point to the scene would be through the same process that happened with IEEE 7…

I mean, it's unfortunate, but can you blame him?

Here's how I'm inclined to reason about it:

It depends on whether he would consider the filing's "invention" to be within a reasonable definition of what should be patentable.

If yes, then he's just playing his part in our society's overall machinations for technical progress, and there's nothing really blameworthy about the filing.

If no, then he's being deeply selfish: He's capitalizing on the government's unjustified encroachment on our individual liberties, via the patent system, for his own personal gain.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#75

Post by Eyas »

vec wrote: post #56
turc1656 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's an inventor. Inventors usually work towards patents. Also, it's not so "no one else can use it". It's so that he can license out his work to a company like Intel. The patent is to protect him from a company like Intel going "sweet, thanks for the fix." And then profiting off his work. Or do you expect this guy to work for free?

I don't expect him to work for free, but I do want Intel (and AMD, ARM, NVIDIA, TI, and anyone else who makes a floating point module) to go "sweet, thanks for the fix" as quickly and, almost more importantly, as collectively as possible. I want this guy to be compensated, but I'd prefer this guy be compensated in a manner that doesn't prevent third parties from fixing their hardware. In general, I think bounties are…

Patents are the way the government allows the inventor to require compensation.

Ideally, that would be how patents are "supposed" to be use: An idea you patent can be used by others in exchange for a royalty fee. In reality, that happens quite a bit, but we also get anti-competitive tech companies who wish to keep advances to themselves, and patent trolls who wait on violations to sue.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#77

Post by TallGuyShort »

iiv wrote: post #61
nraynaud wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a journalist writing the article, they want clickbait.

The journalist quoted the "inventor".

Or a PR person was involved. I've been quoted in press releases saying stuff I never said, and it's par for the course, apparently.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#78

Post by JoeAltmaier »

agar wrote: post #20

Considering the over-the-top language ("a game changer for the computing industry") and questionable or imprecise comments like, "[it] allows representation of real numbers accurate to the last digit" (um, who reads that without thinking of irrational numbers?) it sounds too much like a sales pitch and not like serious research. I could be wrong, but based on the similarities to interval arithmetic everyone has alrea…

Briefly read, it looks like an idea and not an 'apparatus'. Yes, carrying error bound information along with the number is interesting. How is that implemented in real time? How is accumulated error calculated (how do we know the floating values we are calculating with are not perfectly precise e.g. 3.0000... and not 3.000...1)?

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#79

Post by Spivak »

bringtheaction wrote: post #25
turc1656 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I'm genuinely curious why you blame him for patenting his work.

Because the whole patent system is broken and everyone who partakes in it shares blame.

If he didn't patent his work someone else will and collect the royalties resulting in 0 additional freedom. There is nothing gained by not playing.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#80

Post by macintux »

Joe-Z wrote: post #59
turc1656 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's an inventor. Inventors usually work towards patents. Also, it's not so "no one else can use it". It's so that he can license out his work to a company like Intel. The patent is to protect him from a company like Intel going "sweet, thanks for the fix." And then profiting off his work. Or do you expect this guy to work for free?

>Or do you expect this guy to work for free? Apparently he did up until now, didn't he? I agree he should get a percentage of the profits other companies make off of his invention, but it's not like he's entitled to any payments just because he liked to tinker around. Inventor's not a real profession.

> I agree he should get a percentage of the profits other companies make off of his invention, but it's not like he's entitled to any payments just because he liked to tinker around.

The first clause in your sentence is exactly what patents are for; the second clause is...tangential at best.

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