Why the Job Search Sucks • Hacker News Board

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#71

Post by apple4ever » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 10:04 PM UTC

codingdave wrote: post #13

> At least I know not to waste my time waiting on you. So don't. If they don't meet your communication expectations, then it isn't a good match anyway. So don't wait. Move along. > These tests and whiteboarding are not indicative of your skill level No, they indicate your ability to work and talk through problems. I'm not sure where this idea that whiteboarding is about skill level came from. You can cram/study algor…

> No, they indicate your ability to work and talk through problems. I'm not sure where this idea that whiteboarding is about skill level came from. You can cram/study algorithms. But you can't fake the thinking process, or how you approach a problem. You can't fake your communication style. And that is what doing it in a stressful situation shows - how do you really think and communicate under pressure?

They indicate none of that. Hiring pressure is different from work pressure. Its totally useless for anything other than entertainment.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#72

Post by NetOpWibby » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

apple4ever wrote: post #69

He makes a lot of good points, many which I have experienced and resolved to never do. All my applicants know within a few days of whether they are getting an interview. All my first round interviewees know the next day if they are getting a second round interview. All my second round interviewees know the next day if they are hired. As you see above, there is only two rounds. There isn't any white boarding, because…

Your last point is quite telling.

I think a majority of the people making hiring decisions in these companies have never been where I'm at (and where you've been).

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#73

Post by apple4ever » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

ionforce wrote: post #4

Isn't this one of those asymmetry things where the hiring company has no incentive to make the process pleasant? They hold all the power/keys etc. Before people jump in with "what about negative Glassdoor reviews" or "negative reputation", I'm saying that all things taken into account, the equation is still in favor of the company. I don't know.

It really isn't, even though they think it is.

They are losing out on so many good candidates which does affect the bottom line.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#74

Post by ronilan » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 10:06 PM UTC

cantrip wrote: post #66

ronilan wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, good for you. Second, if the transfer of wealth from employers with 300k+ jobs to the public does not lead them to change their practices, than even better for you. Go get the money. But, for the vast majority of people and employers, your special case is irrelevant. There exists a very inefficient, unbalanced social practice. Needs a regulatory nudge. Simple law. California goes first. The world follows. Onwa…

The interview process would certainly change as a result, so who knows if one could interview full time sustainably. But I don't think it's a special case. Good software developers are by nature great at hacking systems and plenty of them would find it more profitable to keep interviewing rather than work a regular job. If it does need a regulatory nudge, paying people to interview is the most naive way to do this.

“They say we offer naive answers to complex problems.”

Just paraphrasing something from my sons leadership project ;)

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#75

Post by tahw » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 10:07 PM UTC

The job search sucks for this guy because he's a front end developer that isn't keeping up with front end developer trends. Which is the thing people pay front end developers to do.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#76

Post by nathanaldensr » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 10:08 PM UTC

jaredcwhite wrote: post #45

codingdave wrote: post #13

> At least I know not to waste my time waiting on you. So don't. If they don't meet your communication expectations, then it isn't a good match anyway. So don't wait. Move along. > These tests and whiteboarding are not indicative of your skill level No, they indicate your ability to work and talk through problems. I'm not sure where this idea that whiteboarding is about skill level came from. You can cram/study algor…

Not a fan of the OP's language, but in terms of the overall rant, actually I'm absolutely going to be more interested in hiring somebody who is calling it for what it is. Lengthy and convoluted interview processes and non sequitur whiteboard sessions are the scourge of the industry. The more programmers revolt and refuse to accept these bizarre practices, the better.

I completely agree.

People are allowed to be frustrated, and they're allowed to use colorful language to express that frustration. The author's opinions are certainly not out of left field; anecdotally, I've been through the same process he has many times. It is frustrating and is completely unnecessary. I especially agree with his feeling that job searches are opaque, with several layers of impenetrable bullshit to filter through. In fact, I've had companies outright lie about why they were hiring me or what working at their company was like, let alone clueless recruiters just trying to make their 20%.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#77

Post by jarsin » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 10:08 PM UTC

jaredcwhite wrote: post #45

codingdave wrote: post #13

> At least I know not to waste my time waiting on you. So don't. If they don't meet your communication expectations, then it isn't a good match anyway. So don't wait. Move along. > These tests and whiteboarding are not indicative of your skill level No, they indicate your ability to work and talk through problems. I'm not sure where this idea that whiteboarding is about skill level came from. You can cram/study algor…

Not a fan of the OP's language, but in terms of the overall rant, actually I'm absolutely going to be more interested in hiring somebody who is calling it for what it is. Lengthy and convoluted interview processes and non sequitur whiteboard sessions are the scourge of the industry. The more programmers revolt and refuse to accept these bizarre practices, the better.

The number 1 reason I don't actively look for new jobs anymore is because of what the hiring process has become. I refuse to go through this BS unless I absolutely have to.

All these companies screaming they can't get good candidates. IMO a major part of it there are tons of people that no longer want to go through it so they are not actively looking like they did in the old days.

These big tech companies have seriously damaged this entire industry with all this bullshit. Yes I blamed the big companies because they get all the press and everyone copies them.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#78

Post by NetOpWibby » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 10:08 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #67

NetOpWibby wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero experience in writing applications with it but I do know of it. I investigate it every now and then to see what's going on with it. Even I started writing a React app the day I became unemployed, I still wouldn't have the years of experience a lot of these companies are asking for. Maybe "fad" wasn't the best word choice but you know how it is. How many frameworks are introduced to HN? You never know whic…

> I have zero experience in writing applications with it but I do know of it. I investigate it every now and then to see what's going on with it. Even I started writing a React app the day I became unemployed, I still wouldn't have the years of experience a lot of these companies are asking for. Don't get hung up on what job listings say verbatim/literally. Most people are reasonably flexible about it, they just have…

Yeah I've gotten about dismissive comments about tone, which is understandable.

In interviews I've had, I get questioned about frameworks so I figured stating my experience upfront would be one less question. I haven't thought about it possibly being perceived as dismissive before.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#79

Post by neosavvy » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 10:10 PM UTC

pinewurst wrote: post #10

sheeshkebab wrote: post #6

I think the answer to age bias (that author referred to) is remote work. No one gives a shit how old you are if all you need is code, slack, email, and zoom/webex. Or so is my experience.

Speaking as a mostly remote worker, you still have to get by a lot of the screening BS - and commonly awful HR treatment - before you can start work. Also many places think they can pay a lot less for a remote person.

Do you use many of the services like Hired / Vettery or Remote seeking these gigs?

I'll be honest I just haven't put much effort into it quite yet - still trying to arrange a few other projects in the event one of them takes off.

I am just resided to the "if it doesn't exist - make it yourself" but it sure is taking a lot of patience out of me to make it so.

Re: Why the Job Search Sucks

#80

Post by NetOpWibby » Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 10:10 PM UTC

tahw wrote: post #75

The job search sucks for this guy because he's a front end developer that isn't keeping up with front end developer trends. Which is the thing people pay front end developers to do.

Actually, it sucks for a lot of people. Keeping up with trends !== building a todo app with said trend. Do you really expect anyone to create a new app with the new hotness every time a "Show HN: My framework" is announced?