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House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

nytimes.com

71–80 of 183 posts

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#71
post #54

As Wyden[1] points out, Congress has nearly no information on what impact the FISA program has. How many Americans are targeted already? The military refuses to answer Congress. How many emails & other collections are swept up? The military refuses to answer to Congress. This bill explicitly allows it's use directly against Americans and declares which circumstances the FBI & other agencies need to use warrants and w…

> The military refuses to answer Congress.

Pedantically the NSA, FBI and CIA are not 'military'

The DIA, NRO and NIMA are.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#72
post #51
post #37

This has been a can kicked for many a mile. First bush, then obama, and now trump. The undocumented and largely ignored effect of FISA is that it is quietly driving cryptography to unprecedented levels of adoption. OpenPGP is part of Yubikey now, granting the average user HSM level security for their encryption for less than $50. Google has increased their cipherstrength and offers several multifactor solutions as we…

I take no solace in typical cryptography as it does nothing to hide most metadata. Who I talk to, when, how often (and the same for websites visited) is way more sensitive in the collective than the contents of any single one of those interactions. Signal type apps hide both and are valuable, but without widespread adoption is meaningless to most people. I'm not against any of the progress you cite, but so long as pe…

The thing that protects metadata is onion routing.

It's somewhat understandable why that isn't already used for everything. The latency impact is not small and it's unlikely the network could take the load if everyone actually started using it for everything.

But it's unfortunate it isn't being used more widely for messaging, where neither of those things are major problems.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#73
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social Security + Medicare + Medicaid is 50% of the federal budget. Defense is another 17%. So the purpose of the government is mostly income redistribution and defense.

Where do your nbrs come from? https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/US_fed_spending_pie_cha...

I was using the numbers for 2015. The years after that aren't significantly different.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/US_Feder...

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#74
post #21
post #8

I had a discussion with my mother regarding surveillance and privacy and how they relate to safety. I feel like she understands that surveillance when used in a nefarious manner can be detrimental to individual freedoms, but is pro surveillance regardless. This is because she believes that the benefits of keeping others safe outweighs the potential for misuse. How can I help her understand why people fight for privac…

When has an average American been severely and personally harmed from surveillance? If you can't answer that without caveats then you have no chance of convincing her in my opinion. In other words, you have to prove that the harms of surveillance outweigh the nebulous sense of protection an average person already has regarding survillance. It's trivial to come up with examples of how survillance is good for an averag…

How would we even know? Parallel construction, etc. The burden of proof should go the other way.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#75
This is bad news.

> “The Intelligence Committee’s bill disregards the Constitution and common sense by granting the government the authority to search Americans’ communications without first obtaining a warrant,” Schuman told The Intercept. “Not only does this turn the purpose of the foreign surveillance law on its head, transforming it into a domestic surveillance tool, but it places activists, minorities, and everyone else at the mercy of President Trump and Attorney General Sessions, who have made clear their disregard for legal constraints and democratic norms.”

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/09/nsa-surveillance-fisa-se...

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just show her what they did to Donald Trump. Via a BS dossier, they wire tapped him and his associates.

This isn't what happened at all, and I suspect you know that. For starters, the dossier wasn't the beginning of the investigation, as we've seen in multiple articles that came out over the last few weeks. Also, Trump was NEVER "wire tapped," unless you are privy to information the rest of the world doesn't have, and the only reason his "associates" were caught up in surveillance reports is because they called crimina…

> the dossier wasn't the beginning of the investigation, as > we've seen in multiple articles that came out over the > last few weeks.

Yes, a pile of articles, stating without proof, the same thing, all coming out at the same time .. almost as if they were coordinated. When specific facts of said articles are proven to be incorrect, small retractions that never make the news cycle are issued.

  > the only reason his "associates" were caught up in 
  > surveillance reports is because they called criminals 
  > who were already under surveillance. It's like if the 
  > FBI is wire-tapping Al Capone, and you called Al Capone. 
  > Sure, you'd get listened to, but they aren't tapping YOU.
It was the unmasking that was illegal and blatantly politically motivated. NSA has wide discretion to conduct surveillance on people outside of the US, but there are supposed to be legal barriers to snooping on US citizens. If the NSA picks up communications from a US citizen in the course of monitoring a foreign national, it is practice to "mask" the identity of the US person. Additionally, the identification of a US citizen mentioned in discussions between two foreign nationals is supposed to be masked.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#77
post #54

As Wyden[1] points out, Congress has nearly no information on what impact the FISA program has. How many Americans are targeted already? The military refuses to answer Congress. How many emails & other collections are swept up? The military refuses to answer to Congress. This bill explicitly allows it's use directly against Americans and declares which circumstances the FBI & other agencies need to use warrants and w…

> The military refuses to answer Congress. Pedantically the NSA, FBI and CIA are not 'military' The DIA, NRO and NIMA are.

That's not quite right, the NSA is a DoD agency and the highest ranking civilian in it is the Deputy Director. The Director of the NSA is a military officer also in charge of USCYBERCOM.

The FBI and the CIA are indeed civilian agencies (though the CIA has some caveats there).

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#78
Can someone clear it up for me. How likely is it that my google searches are being swept up and stored indefinitely, because I'm foreigner. I've disabled google search history, though I doubt it will help. Similar question - do they have a profile for every foreigner they can identify?

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#79
post #42
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has an average American been severely and personally harmed from surveillance? If you can't answer that without caveats then you have no chance of convincing her in my opinion. In other words, you have to prove that the harms of surveillance outweigh the nebulous sense of protection an average person already has regarding survillance. It's trivial to come up with examples of how survillance is good for an averag…

[cynic] The public camera catching a random criminal doens't really matter to me unless that criminal actually stole from me.[/cynic] Fortunately we don't have to look to that. More than once the public road surveillance cameras have aided my decision to work from home. They have also helped me decided to take/not take an alternate route around bad traffic. Those are real benefits to surveillance that help me. I unde…

>public

This is a big part of the difference between traffic cameras and unchecked surveillance of individuals.

Re: House Votes to Renew Surveillance Law, Rejecting New Privacy Limits

#80
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't what happened at all, and I suspect you know that. For starters, the dossier wasn't the beginning of the investigation, as we've seen in multiple articles that came out over the last few weeks. Also, Trump was NEVER "wire tapped," unless you are privy to information the rest of the world doesn't have, and the only reason his "associates" were caught up in surveillance reports is because they called crimina…

> the dossier wasn't the beginning of the investigation, as > we've seen in multiple articles that came out over the > last few weeks. Yes, a pile of articles, stating without proof, the same thing, all coming out at the same time .. almost as if they were coordinated. When specific facts of said articles are proven to be incorrect, small retractions that never make the news cycle are issued. > the only reason his "a…

>but there are supposed to be legal barriers to snooping on US citizens

There are supposed to be legal barriers, and renewing this law continues to reject what we're supposed to have in place, for everyone.

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