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Millennials Strike Back: An Esoteric Reading of the Last Jedi

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Re: Millennials Strike Back: An Esoteric Reading of the Last Jedi

#71
post #51

Seems like something that should be in r/theempiredidnothingwrong. I went into this movie full on ignoring the metaphorical connections to the real world and let it exist in my mind as just an entertaining movie and story and to my surprise, it blew me away (although obviously far from perfect). Its interesting to see people pick this movie apart, as if the originals had perfect acting, no flaws, and were the epitome…

I just didn't think the movie was as 'fun' as the previous movies. I think the Disney movies are good movies, I felt like the Lucas movies were fun movies. All the rest of it is secondary to that for me.

I think the prequels tried to tell a good story. Apart from a few glaring mistakes(like the idea that Anakin built C-3PO) the story and plot ideas were good enough. But scene to scene, it was poorly executed, with stilted dialog, bad direction (which often shows up as bad acting and unlikable characters), and uneven pacing. There's legitimate character development. The problem is, execution of those character arcs are clumsy or forced and lack the dramatic impact they should have. Certain plotlines are tedious, but you could make an argument that better editing could have fixed those flaws.

I think the Disney movies don't even try to tell a good story. The plots barely make sense and frequently violate established rules and conventions for no apparent reason. Apart from perhaps Kylo Ren, the new characters are static and uninteresting. Rey is likeable but has no growth. Finn is likable but isn't believable as an ex-stormtrooper. The relationship between The First Order and the Resistance/Rebellion is muddled and confusing at best. Where the prequels dwelt too much on tedious political details, the sequels go the other direction fail to establish a compelling galactic context for the war. As for Rogue One, I enjoyed that in the way I enjoy a dumb, mindless action movie. The characters were bland and uninteresting and the plot was just barely good enough to keep me interested.

The original trilogy had a good well-focused story, a good plot, a simple but sufficiently compelling political context, likable characters that experienced legitimate growth and character arcs. It had exceptional editing, great pacing--albeit slower than any blockbuster you'd see today-- and amazing sound design and music. There are some flaws, and some internal inconsistencies. But it's easy to argue that the major ones, such as Vader being revealed as Luke's father, enhance the story more than detract from it. It makes Obi-Wan's character seem less virtuous, for example-- but he's a fairly minor character and a minor flaw isn't a problem anyway, it makes him seem more human.

The original Lucas trilogy wasn't perfect, but it's far superior to either the prequels or the Disney sequels.

Re: Millennials Strike Back: An Esoteric Reading of the Last Jedi

#72
post #41

My biggest problem with the movie was using the hyperdrive as a weapon. Why couldn't that have been used on the first, second or third deathstar?

> My biggest problem with the movie was using the hyperdrive as a weapon. Why couldn't that have been used on the first, second or third deathstar?

Or even by the two other captial-ship escorts, which Holdo left to run out of gas and get pointlessly destroyed, so she could save the noble sacrifice scene for herself.

Re: Millennials Strike Back: An Esoteric Reading of the Last Jedi

#73
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would pay to see a movie during the peaceful years of the Jedi showing the struggles of a child being taken into the Jedi order trained up through to Jedi Knight. Emotional trauma of losing family, the rigorous training, confusing philosophy classes about magic, tension of building the first lightsaber that could explode in their face, first mission under a master as a padawan, and so on. There are stories to tell…

Neither of these take place during peaceful times, but both of the TV shows (Clone Wars & Rebels) have taken the time to cover the rest of what you mentioned. They may be somewhat aimed at a younger audience but by no means are kiddie-only shows. Dave Filoni is one of the best things to ever happen to Star Wars story telling, and being in charge of their animation department I expect to see much more good work coming…

I'm well aware of the TV shows for Star Wars and I particularly like Rebels. I'm in my forties and enjoy them immensely.

>> I wouldn't blow it off just because it doesn't seem aimed at you

Who said anything remotely like that?

Re: Millennials Strike Back: An Esoteric Reading of the Last Jedi

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's a silly interpretation. Especially inconsistent since if Yoda is Luke's hallucination as the article asserts, then Luke himself is "killing the past" in the same way that Kylo Ren does, and treating the film as a Millennial attack on the Baby Boomers is rather short-sighted when they are both doing the same thing. As far as I can see, the only thing approaching a coherent theme in TLJ is the question of how…

Note what Yoda says before he destroys the tree: "There's nothing in those books she does not already possess." And then remember the final scene on the Falcon, where you can clearly see that the books are safely with Rey. She must have taken them before she left, and Yoda knows this. In that period of time, though, the audience (and Luke) is left to believe that Yoda truly did choose to destroy ancient Jedi artifact…

Hey Lionheart. Just to be clear -- I don't think TLJ is devoid of meaning. The film clearly wants to say that anyone can be a hero and that what matters is not being trapped by the past (protect what you love, learn from your mistakes and move on). There is nothing wrong with this message.

It doesn't bother me if people like TLJ, although I personally don't think the film makes much sense. If Yoda deceives Luke that saves TLJ from having Yoda actually mirror Kylo Ren, but it doesn't explain the fire and lightning (Sith tools associated with hell imagery) nor does it resolve the underlying problem since deception is also Dark Side behaviour....

There are a few other areas where the film contradicts itself, but this is an obvious one: if we take the film seriously we must surely ask ourselves why Yoda is acting like a Sith Lord? I didn't see any attempt to answer that puzzle in the film and while we may get the solution in film #3, as far as I can tell TLJ just accepts that whatever Yoda does is good (because he is Yoda) and whatever Kylo Ren does is bad (because he is the villain). The filmmakers have bought into the loose symbolic framework of the saga, but they don't seem to understand it and/or act consistently within it. To the extent there is a message, it comes out because the good guys tell us exactly what it is and we aren't supposed to think too critically about it.

Re: Millennials Strike Back: An Esoteric Reading of the Last Jedi

#75
What irked me in the new trilogy was that not just was the first part a xerox of the beginning of the first trilogy, there was also no explanation given at all why had gone so horribly wrong.

We left the scene at the end of episode 4: The empire was defeated, the good guys had all the power, wisdom and allies on their side, there was a big victory celebration and everything was abuzz with hopes and plans for the future.

Then... things... happened and suddenly everything is reset to the same bad old times.

Yet no one even attempts to find out why this happened and where exactly the old plans and assumptions went wrong (and where they didn't). All that is done is either stoically holding on to the old plans or frustratedly admitting "failure".

I guess you could see this as an analogy to today's times as well: Everyone is panicking that the fascists are back, that inequality is rising, that living standards are falling and that no one is stopping climate change - but there seem few discussions about where exactly things went wrong, except that all it's somehow the baby boomers'/the millennials'/facebook's fault.

Re: Millennials Strike Back: An Esoteric Reading of the Last Jedi

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note what Yoda says before he destroys the tree: "There's nothing in those books she does not already possess." And then remember the final scene on the Falcon, where you can clearly see that the books are safely with Rey. She must have taken them before she left, and Yoda knows this. In that period of time, though, the audience (and Luke) is left to believe that Yoda truly did choose to destroy ancient Jedi artifact…

Hey Lionheart. Just to be clear -- I don't think TLJ is devoid of meaning. The film clearly wants to say that anyone can be a hero and that what matters is not being trapped by the past (protect what you love, learn from your mistakes and move on). There is nothing wrong with this message. It doesn't bother me if people like TLJ, although I personally don't think the film makes much sense. If Yoda deceives Luke that…

> If Yoda deceives Luke that saves TLJ from having Yoda actually mirror Kylo Ren, but it doesn't explain the fire and lightning (Sith tools associated with hell imagery) nor does it resolve the underlying problem since deception is also Dark Side behaviour....

It comes down to intent. Fire, lightning, and destruction aren't relegated to the Dark Side of the Force. Jedis have always had their share of destruction and murder. They were a literal army during the time of the Old Republic. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's behavior in the first scenes of TPM show this firsthand. They were sent to the Trade Federation to intimidate—not a very noble thing to do on the surface, but it was in the greater good.

There have been innumerable essays and analyses understanding how the two sides differ, but the one that's always stuck with me is that the Jedi are at their core more of a guiding force, whereas the Sith are a controlling force.

Everything the Sith do is for their own greater good, whereas the Jedi will do things (even kill, or destroy) if it leads to the greater good of others.

And, in this case, the destruction of the temple leads Luke to understand that old books aren't what are important. No one died when that tree was destroyed. And it may very well have been what pushed Luke to self-sacrifice and save the remnants of the Resistance. That seems like a very "Jedi" thing to do (IMO).

Re: Millennials Strike Back: An Esoteric Reading of the Last Jedi

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Lionheart. Just to be clear -- I don't think TLJ is devoid of meaning. The film clearly wants to say that anyone can be a hero and that what matters is not being trapped by the past (protect what you love, learn from your mistakes and move on). There is nothing wrong with this message. It doesn't bother me if people like TLJ, although I personally don't think the film makes much sense. If Yoda deceives Luke that…

> If Yoda deceives Luke that saves TLJ from having Yoda actually mirror Kylo Ren, but it doesn't explain the fire and lightning (Sith tools associated with hell imagery) nor does it resolve the underlying problem since deception is also Dark Side behaviour.... It comes down to intent. Fire, lightning, and destruction aren't relegated to the Dark Side of the Force. Jedis have always had their share of destruction and…

> It comes down to intent

There is nothing in the film that communicates this. It may be that we are supposed to view the film this way, but the film itself is not sophisticated in communicating this message. Meanwhile, there are many characters who are clearly well-intentioned (Poe and Finn) whose actions seem to be explicitly criticized.

Lucas was a far more sophisticated filmmaker. In his prequels the Jedi are deeply flawed, and the audience is supposed to notice that they abandon their commitment to peace ("I can protect you, but I cannot fight a war for you") to the point that they die (literally and allegorically) marching into war. Likewise, Luke's effort to rescue his friends in Empire is well-intentioned, but nearly destroys him because he chooses violence as his tool (similar to Anakin's efforts to rescue Padme through violence). It is not accidental that the temptation that Vader offers Luke is the same temptation Palpatine offers Anakin: the use of violence for the sake of good ("join me, and bring peace and order to the galaxy") -- a trap in both films.

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