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Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

bbc.com

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Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#71

Post by emsy »

eeks wrote: post #14
emsy wrote: post #2

IMHO this is sending a strong signal to people like myself who mainly use an iPhone for privacy reasons. Regardless of whether or not the data is only stored encrypted at the 3rd party, their willingness to compromise in this regard is a strong indicator for their future actions and their commitment to privacy and security.

I disagree. Apple has always made clear that information stored on their iCloud service were subject accesses by a third party with the proper authority. Whether this third party is US or Chinese does not change anything. Only the information that is resident on your phone with the Secure Enclave is tamper resistant.

I don't buy into this line of reasoning, because it inverts the relationship. Of course Apple has to hand over access to authorities if there's a lawful reason behind it, just like e.g. a private person has to oblige to a search warrant. But in this case they hand over their infrastructure to an untrusted party in order to conduct business in the first place.

Again, it's not so much about what the firm can actually do with the infrastructure (ideally, it's a black box that only the user can access with the correct key), but what compromise they're willing to make in order to conduct business. Privacy has become a selling point for Apple, and actions like these signal how serious they are about it.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#72

Post by chrchang523 »

rainbowmverse wrote: post #43

This just reminds me of that subthread in yesterday's Facebook home device post where people were ranking tech companies. A lot of people put Apple first on respect for privacy. It's good to have a reminder of the nature of corporations so soon after that. Tools for users to take privacy and security into their own hands need to be made accessible enough to make it truly matter. Its like herd immunity with vaccinatio…

Facebook's "shadow profiles" (see e.g. https://spideroak.com/articles/facebook-shadow-profiles-a-pr... ) are a concrete example of this that should be better-known.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#73

Post by cromwellian »

kome wrote: post #48
cromwellian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has a population of 1+ billion who are firewalled both by network access and by language. European citizens have better English proficiency and no great firewall, hence the transaction barriers to consuming global services are easier. I’m afraid you have to be globally competitive unless the EU wants a Great Firewall.

> hence the transaction barriers to consuming global services are easier. It's just a political choice. It's not a fact of life. Better regulation and better taxation of capitals would "firewall" Europe as well. As I said below, language has never been an issue. Nobody is using google because is in English. Google is well translated everywhere.

The regulation and taxes are more likely to disadvantage smaller players.

Europe’s problem with tech investment isn’t because of existing big tech players.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#74

Post by MBCook »

MollyR wrote: post #54
shp0ngle wrote: post #35

Apple to FBI: No you can't get into iPhones, our users want security. Apple to China: Here are the keys

Wow,I didn't think of that example. It's a pretty huge hypocrisy.

In both cases they’re complying with the laws.

The data may be stored with a Chinese company but it’s still encrypted isn’t it? They can’t read it can they?

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#75

Post by madez »

chrchang523 wrote: post #72
rainbowmverse wrote: post #43

This just reminds me of that subthread in yesterday's Facebook home device post where people were ranking tech companies. A lot of people put Apple first on respect for privacy. It's good to have a reminder of the nature of corporations so soon after that. Tools for users to take privacy and security into their own hands need to be made accessible enough to make it truly matter. Its like herd immunity with vaccinatio…

Facebook's "shadow profiles" (see e.g. https://spideroak.com/articles/facebook-shadow-profiles-a-pr... ) are a concrete example of this that should be better-known.

I'm interest what is going to happen about that starting from 25 May 2018 when the GDPR from the EU becomes enforceable.

A good thing about these data regulations is that they can not only be brought to court by private individuals, but by also by dedicated officials from the nations.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#76

Post by tsycho »

reaperducer wrote: post #53
dave84 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What course of action would you prefer: Willingly shut down iCloud in China or have iCloud forcefully shut down in China?

How about a notice on iCloud reading something like "iCloud is not available in your country due to local government regulations that are in conflict with our position on personal privacy. We are sorry for the inconvenience."

Google did that (actually took an even stronger stance). But if competitors don't do the same, then nothing changes and you are just ceding the market to them.

To be clear, I am not advocating that companies should bow down on their principles, just that it needs to be a more coordinated effort across companies, and might need new technical solutions to evade government firewalls etc.

While I am cynical that my wishes would come true, I do respect the companies that take a moral stance against their own business interests, which includes Google in China and Apple in the US.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#77

Post by a_c »

> iCloud accounts registered outside of China are not affected.

What exactly does this mean? What makes an online account registered in a geographic location? Is it determined by where the iphone is bought, the IP addresses when the registration is made, the email account used for the registration or something else?

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#78

Post by stcredzero »

As of early 2018, national boundaries combined with linguistic barriers are still more powerful than the internet. Could this change with low Earth orbit satellite internet? (Given the precedents to date, I'd expect the Chinese government to jam the signals or otherwise intervene.)

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#80

Post by Chaebixi »

jitl wrote: post #44
jgalar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pure speculation on my part, but could this be a way for Apple to segregate Chinese account data from the rest of their customers' data? That would seem to limit the scope of what Chinese authorities can access.

This is exactly what this is done. Apple needs to isolate its Chinese users so that only they are affected by Chinese government regulations.

How do they define "Chinese users?" What about an American traveling or living in China?
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