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Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

reuters.com

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Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#71

Post by mpweiher »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #54
mpweiher wrote: post #33

I think coverage of the A380 often misses the point that at the time, Boeing's 747 simply had no competition, whereas all of Airbus's planes did. So Airbus pretty much had to create the A380 in order to protect its other lines from cross-subsidy by this unopposed cash-cow. And, also missing from almost all the coverage is the fact that this worked: if the A380 is struggling, the 747 is moribund or dead. Official back…

> if the A380 is struggling, the 747 is moribund or dead Boeing has built and sold over 1,500 747s [1]. It first flew in 1969 and is now being end of lifed. It has been obscenely profitable over its lifetime. The A380 first flew in 2005 [2]. It has been a commercial disaster. The 747 was a great plane for 1969. Airbus built the finest horse-drawn carriage just as the Model T came out. > constrained slots at major air…

> It has been obscenely profitable over its lifetime

Exactly. And these obscene profits in a line where it had no competition were a problem for Airbus. A problem that has now disappeared.

> The A380 first flew in 2005 [2]. It has been a commercial disaster.

(a) It helped kill the "obscenely profitable" 747.

(b) It was a hedge in case airlines were going to stick with the hub-and-spoke model

(c) Slot constraints may only have a temporary reprieve

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#72

Post by jonknee »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #50
code4tee wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, there’s 5 787s flying around for every A350. On the future book Boeing also has around 50% more 787 orders than Airbus has A350. So yeah, I’d call that being a bit behind in that market segment.

It's 1250 to 850 orders.

And it's 625 to 133 deliveries...

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#73

Post by 24gttghh »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #50
code4tee wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, there’s 5 787s flying around for every A350. On the future book Boeing also has around 50% more 787 orders than Airbus has A350. So yeah, I’d call that being a bit behind in that market segment.

It's 1250 to 850 orders.

850 x .5 = 425

850 + 425 = 1275

Looks pretty damn close to 50% more orders for Boeing, so I'm not sure what you are implying.

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#74

Post by nradov »

mpweiher wrote: post #33

I think coverage of the A380 often misses the point that at the time, Boeing's 747 simply had no competition, whereas all of Airbus's planes did. So Airbus pretty much had to create the A380 in order to protect its other lines from cross-subsidy by this unopposed cash-cow. And, also missing from almost all the coverage is the fact that this worked: if the A380 is struggling, the 747 is moribund or dead. Official back…

I don't think the Boeing 747 really created much of a cross-subsidy for their smaller models. Most of the major airlines with 747s had a mix of Boeing and Airbus airplanes.

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#75

Post by toomuchtodo »

jmnicolas wrote: post #56
stergios wrote: post #20

Boeing most likely has already delivered the last passenger 747 ever to be built [1]. Cargo demand will keep the line alive, but at greatly reduced numbers, which in total have been 1536 units since it's commercial introduction in 1970 [2]. IMHO, the A380 was not created to meet market demand, but instead was conceived to meet the national interests of England and France's own military industrial complex, and in that…

The A380 is used as a military plane ?

It’s the commercial product of Airbus, an EU defense contractor.

http://www.airbus.com/defence.html

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#76

Post by oblio »

code4tee wrote: post #19
namdnay wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that for airlines that want to differentiate on comfort/quality, the A380 is a must-have: You can pimp up the interior of a 787 as much as you want, it will never be as comfortable as what you can do with an A380 (see my other comment on the Emirates A380). However this segment probably isn't big enough to justify such an expensive production line... @frik - for some reason you are "dead" - no-one can see you…

I’ve flown just about every commercial model of airplane made in the last 30 years including Emirates A380 biz class. While that was undoubtedly an amazing trip, it had a lot more to do with the airline than the airplane. My enthusiasm for the trip also dropped off when I had to spend several hours waiting around in the middle of the night at their hub in Dubai.

Why? What happened in Dubai?

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#77

Post by JumpCrisscross »

namdnay wrote: post #2

I fly Emirates A380 from time to time, I have to say the business class is better than the first class of most carriers. Very quiet, masses of space, and the bar is not bad at all when you want to stretch your legs. And when you get bumped up to first... having a shower on a flight is very nice :) The only problem is the godawful stopover in Dubai - If there is one advantage that the non-gulf carriers have, it's that…

> The only problem is the godawful stopover in Dubai

This is why the A380 has been a failure. It is only economical when it is full. Airlines must cram demand into a few routes, e.g. London --> Dubai, to ensure they fill their planes.

That's fine if you're flying from London to Dubai. But if you're flying to Asia, a competing flight going directly to your destination is preferable. That route has too little demand to profitably fill an A380. It might be just right, though, for a 787.

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#78

Post by dillondoyle »

namdnay wrote: post #41
TremendousJudge wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The business seats on a plane make more money than the economy seats. However, there aren't lines where you can fill a whole plane of business: economy is there mostly to fill up space

There are some, but they're very rare. One example is the BA shuttle between London City and New York - only business. I believe there is a French airline doing a "cheap business" Paris-New York as well.

La Compagnie! I really like them the couple times I've flown. For the price it's really great value. Worst part is the NYC airpot 'lounge'

Not the fanciest interior/seat but the food and service were great when I've flown.

Re: Airbus ready to axe A380 if fails to win Emirates deal

#79

Post by tolien »

code4tee wrote: post #34
dawhizkid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they're scrambling. The A350 is their 787 competitor and looks amazing. Can't wait to try it out.

Um, there’s 5 787s flying around for every A350. On the future book Boeing also has around 50% more 787 orders than Airbus has A350. So yeah, I’d call that being a bit behind in that market segment.

The 787 first flew 4 years earlier too, cost 3x as much to develop and aren’t selling for three times the price.

To the end of last month there were 858 orders (133 delivered) for the A350 versus 1287 (625 delivered) for the Dreamliner. Considering the 787 had a head start (787 introduced in 2011, A350 XWB in 2015), the pressure’s on Airbus to keep ramping up deliveries (the last few years it looks like Boeing’s stabilised at ~130 per year) but that gap’s going to shrink pretty quickly…

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