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Red Lang goes blockchain

red-lang.org

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Re: Red Lang goes blockchain

#71

Post by adamnemecek »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #37
phantom_oracle wrote: post #32

edit I know we're all experiencing blockchain fatigue, but for once, I actually know what the tokens will be used for (beyond the usual snake-oil that other ICOs sell). For reference: Some of the target usages for the token holders, will include: - voting rights: influence the Red roadmap, vote for features and issue tickets. - tipping: useful chat posts, code contributions, learning materials providers, etc. - intra…

People who buy into the ICO can influence the roadmap? Isn't that design by committee? (Generally considered a bad idea.)

I imagine it will be useful only for prioritization.

Re: Red Lang goes blockchain

#72

Post by dreit1 »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #70
dreit1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This radical consensus mechanism has led to multiple hostile parties go into a pseudo economic war with each other. These parties are fairly centralized, miners, developers, and business interests, with the users largely standing on the sidelines of all of this. A decentralized system takes power from one party and moves it to multiple parties. That is the definition of decentralization. A decentralized system is not…

>>This radical consensus mechanism has led to multiple hostile parties go into a pseudo economic war with each other. I'm not arguing about the merits of its consensus algorithm or of decentralization. I'm providing context for how the term 'cryptocurrency' originated, and how 'decentralization' was used in this context. Having a central authority determine who can be a consensus server, and being explicitly designed…

I don't think that we will be able to convince each other. If you think that everyone needing to run a validating node in a blockchain ecosystem to be decentralized, then NEO certainly won't fit your criteria. I don't subscribe to this definition of decentralization

Re: Red Lang goes blockchain

#73

Post by crishoj »

eggy wrote: post #19

I like Red, and I have been following it. I dabbled with Rebol back in my Amiga days, but not much. Red is a nice batteries-included, small, Lispy-forth language in my perception. I am sticking with my Lisps (SBCL, Racket, Emacs Lisp, Shen, and Wasp Lisp) for now, and my beloved J [2], but I love the size of the whole Red/Red System environment. I think it is going to take off. I know Naned, the man behind Red, was C…

“Proof of stake” (as opposed to “proof of work”) is an attempt at reducing the energy footprint.

Re: Red Lang goes blockchain

#75

Post by CryptoPunk »

dreit1 wrote: post #72
CryptoPunk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>This radical consensus mechanism has led to multiple hostile parties go into a pseudo economic war with each other. I'm not arguing about the merits of its consensus algorithm or of decentralization. I'm providing context for how the term 'cryptocurrency' originated, and how 'decentralization' was used in this context. Having a central authority determine who can be a consensus server, and being explicitly designed…

I don't think that we will be able to convince each other. If you think that everyone needing to run a validating node in a blockchain ecosystem to be decentralized, then NEO certainly won't fit your criteria. I don't subscribe to this definition of decentralization

You're right that we won't convince each other and that carrying this on isn't a good use of either of our time.

I'll add however that "everyone running a validating node" is not my definition of decentralization. Needing to 1. identify oneself to the NEO Council, 2. be a legal entity and 3. get approval from the NEO Council, to run a fully validating node, is not decentralization according to any meaningful definition of the term.

If federations of trusted third parties are decentralized, then corporations with multiple shareholders are decentralized. Even the Federal Reserve, with its regional banks voted in by the member banks of each respective district, is decentralized, by this loose definition.

Re: Red Lang goes blockchain

#76

Post by tluyben2 »

9214 wrote: post #20
eggy wrote: post #19

I like Red, and I have been following it. I dabbled with Rebol back in my Amiga days, but not much. Red is a nice batteries-included, small, Lispy-forth language in my perception. I am sticking with my Lisps (SBCL, Racket, Emacs Lisp, Shen, and Wasp Lisp) for now, and my beloved J [2], but I love the size of the whole Red/Red System environment. I think it is going to take off. I know Naned, the man behind Red, was C…

s/Naned/Nenad I recently got interested in J too by the way, how do you use this language and Lisps in your work?

The APLs and especially, for me, j and k, are really interesting languagues. For one, I agree with Whitney, the creator of k, that you should not have to scroll to read your software. I think making sure at least every function points fits on a phone screen is a large boon for readability and maintainability. It is not the fact that it fits there, it is more so that if it does, you can work on that implementation mentally focused: without jumping pages or even files. I know a lot of people find j,k and even Forth unreadable, but that is really just practice. When I got used to it, I found, for instance, c# a lot more annoying to read. It is somewhat (this is a bit over the top, but you get the idea) the difference between reading Godel his original whitepaper (in German ofcourse) and Godel, Escher Bach explaining that whitepaper. Both are good reads, but the original paper, when you have the background context, is easier to read and debug that that enormous volume.

I hope to find more time to explore these avenues. For now, k and forth mixtures are my favorite to mess around with; I created a little language to do live coding on my phone for Xamarin and the forth/k mix I use is actually the first thing that is not annoying to work with on a phone screen. Because most happens in your brain and what you type is a few hieroglyphs, the development is interactive, you can walk around doing it. I hope to clean it up enough to release it (I am old, I do not like this releasing of half baked stuff usually, unless it is game related): it saves me a lot hell doing edit/compile/wait/test cycles.

For playing around, check out oK : it is a k implementation in JS, it is slow but works everywhere and has some cool features for making graphics and little games.

Re: Red Lang goes blockchain

#77

Post by eggy »

crishoj wrote: post #73
eggy wrote: post #19

I like Red, and I have been following it. I dabbled with Rebol back in my Amiga days, but not much. Red is a nice batteries-included, small, Lispy-forth language in my perception. I am sticking with my Lisps (SBCL, Racket, Emacs Lisp, Shen, and Wasp Lisp) for now, and my beloved J [2], but I love the size of the whole Red/Red System environment. I think it is going to take off. I know Naned, the man behind Red, was C…

“Proof of stake” (as opposed to “proof of work”) is an attempt at reducing the energy footprint.

Thanks for the tip! I'm going to check this out.

Re: Red Lang goes blockchain

#78

Post by eggy »

9214 wrote: post #20
eggy wrote: post #19

I like Red, and I have been following it. I dabbled with Rebol back in my Amiga days, but not much. Red is a nice batteries-included, small, Lispy-forth language in my perception. I am sticking with my Lisps (SBCL, Racket, Emacs Lisp, Shen, and Wasp Lisp) for now, and my beloved J [2], but I love the size of the whole Red/Red System environment. I think it is going to take off. I know Naned, the man behind Red, was C…

s/Naned/Nenad I recently got interested in J too by the way, how do you use this language and Lisps in your work?

I can't go back and edit the spelling error, thanks anyway.

I use J daily on my desktop as a calculator, and for more involved calculations. I am a senior project manager/technical designer/business developer at an engineering firm in the their Entertainment department. We do rock concerts, Broadway, film, live events, theme parks, stage machinery, art installation engineering and more. J is like my quicker-than-Excel-tryout-space. I have developed more mathematically-heavy applications in it, but when the need is for something beyond J's strengths of array handling and beautiful succinctness, I reach for Lisp for developing more of what people call apps, but they are for my sole use. Particularly SBCL. I also use Emacs Lisp a lot, since I am in Emacs all day for org-mode, writing, coding and LaTex. I am addicted to Emacs. It is the Lisp Machine for me until another is developed, or I can afford a relic.

I picked up Shen [1] a few years back to keep me from straying to far into Haskell/Idris, and I am working through The Book of Shen 3rd Edition. I had looked into Wasp Lisp years ago for fun, but I am now looking more into it since Chris Double ported Shen (and with it Klambda) over to the Wasp Lisp [2]. It made me leave any studies I started of Erlang or LFE, since my focus is on networking and distributed computing as a hobby. I always stay up to date with Racket, and use it for procedural geometry generation using Rosetta [3] instead of Rhino and Grasshopper. I actually used it to generate procedural truss for a sphere and then exported the centerlines to run analysis on the structure in RISA 3D [4].

I like to fiddle with Extempore for livecoding, but I am a mere dilettante [5]

  [1]  http://shenlanguage.org/
  [2]  https://github.com/doublec/shen-wasp
  [3]  http://web.ist.utl.pt/antonio.menezes.leitao/Rosetta/tutorials/introduction.html
  [4]  https://risa.com/p_risa3d.html
  [5]  https://github.com/digego/extempore

Re: Red Lang goes blockchain

#79

Post by eggy »

tluyben2 wrote: post #76
9214 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

s/Naned/Nenad I recently got interested in J too by the way, how do you use this language and Lisps in your work?

The APLs and especially, for me, j and k, are really interesting languagues. For one, I agree with Whitney, the creator of k, that you should not have to scroll to read your software. I think making sure at least every function points fits on a phone screen is a large boon for readability and maintainability. It is not the fact that it fits there, it is more so that if it does, you can work on that implementation men…

I am familiar with k and oK. Is your unreleased language closer to forth or k? Sounds interesting. I checked out Sporth by a fellow named Paul Batchelor. Pretty cool stuff. He's going in different directions nowadays I think, but stil livecoding tools.

Re: Red Lang goes blockchain

#80

Post by dang »

jabgrabdthrow wrote: post #30

I just bet myself 5:95 odds (lose means donate directly to the org - they just missed out on 12.5k) that there would be only rent-seeking or “voting” in the “token use cases”. These guys don’t know what they don’t know. Also, HA HA HA. I used to feel bad for the victims but now I think they deserve it.

Please don't post snarky dismissals to HN, even if something else is wrong or bad. That's no reason to make this place worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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