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Burning man defeats PayPal

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Re: Burning man defeats PayPal

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks in Europe are tightly controlled. You have no idea what it's like in the US. Imagine a system where… 1. You pay a 20% fee to withdraw money from an ATM that doesn't belong to your bank. 2. The bank puts thru a charge they shouldn't, you run out of cash, and you get whacked with a $35 fee. 3. The bank charges you a monthly fee after that - another $35 fee. 4. The bank shuts off your card because you're in anothe…

1. It's a 20% fee when you request $10, or a 2% fee if you request $100. 2. Overdraft fees are disallowed by law and are opt-in now. 4. Also, it's not typically the banks that cancel cards, it's the processing network that does. Most problems people have with banks are user-error, plain and simple. When you misuse a computer program, you waste time. When you misuse a bank, they charge you money.

re #2: Overdraft fees are only opt-in for certain classes of transactions, namely ATM and non-recurring debit transactions.

Checks, ACH transfers, and recurring debit transactions can still generate overdraft fees without an opt-in consent.

re #4: The networks pulls the trigger, but the standing orders come from the issuing institutions. Fraud detection is often used as a differentiation feature by the networks to attract bank customers, the networks themselves don't have a direct incentive to prevent fraudulent transactions beyond this: they don't stand to take a loss.

Re: Burning man defeats PayPal

#72

This is ridiculous. PayPal is not some evil "big brother" - they are a company whose entire business model relies on stopping fraudulent activity, and as such, things like this often occur. Pick your poison - either have this happen on occasion, or have your money frequently stolen and more likely, be made essentially impossible to transfer safely on the web. I will take the occasional inconvenience in exchange for a…

I don't doubt that you'd accept the occasional inconvenience to other people. Try having your own money taken away from you and report back to us about the "inconvenience."

Re: Burning man defeats PayPal

#73

Here is another example of how PayPal is a bit shady: Sign into PayPal to send money. If you have a credit card as a payment method and a bank account as a payment method, PayPal will auto select your bank account. That's fine, except when you change your payment method from the default bank account to your credit card. A confirmation page comes up and tries to change your selection back to your bank account. There a…

Yes! I mainly use my credit card for everything online, including paypal, and that trick does get me on some occasions when I'm not paying close attention. It's probably a cost saving measure as credit cards most likely cost more to transact with than bank accounts.

Indeed. ACH processing is dirt cheap. I also wouldn't be surprised if the terms of ACH transactions are more favorable to PayPal than those of MasterCard/VISA.

The ACH system has very strict rules guaranteeing payments once they clear the network, as opposed to the more consumer friendly rules that the card networks offer. ACH, afterall, is meant to be used by financial institutions that know exactly what they're doing.

Re: Burning man defeats PayPal

#74
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of horror stories about Paypal significantly outnumber the horror stories about regular banks or credit card companies. I surmise this is because you're a techy and you talk to people who run businesses online on a regular basis. If you spent a lot of time on, e.g., credit card discussion boards (they exist), or spoke to "regular people" about their payment issues on a regular basis, I suspect you would co…

Paypal is not a scam which achieves profitability by freezing accounts. That is crazy talk. I don't know that Paypal ever achieved profitability. They raised a whole lot of capital, and then when it looked like they might fold, eBay stepped in to make sure they didn't. Paypal's lack of profitability was legendary when I was in online payments, since they were the Microsoft of the industry.

They have achieved profitability, in dump truck loads. In the beginning, they didn't take any fees and so were burning through cash at a terrific rate, now it's around 3%, which is well above the CC processing fees for them, and miles higher than the bank ACH fees on those transactions.

Re: Burning man defeats PayPal

#75

PayPal once made me refund every customer in the last 6 months. They said it was the only way to unfreeze my account. I gave them the thumbs up because I had no other options at the time, and they said, "you have to manually refund them one-by-one yourself and then call us when it is done". It was really strange. They permanently froze my account after I refunded everyone and refused to talk to me when I called. I wa…

We've been processing 5 figures a month with PayPal subscriptions for over 5 years (we've since moved to a different system but have a lot of legacy customers still on PayPal). While I've had some odd issues here and there and the user experience for clients is poor, I've never had anything close to what you've described. I have to say–either you're wrong about "your time will come" or there's simply more to your sto…

It sounds like your time hasn't come yet.

Re: Burning man defeats PayPal

#76
seems like they folded to social pressure of the burner community which is vocal and well connected, but their change of heart was driven by wanting to further avoid a PR shit storm. Joe Q web company or individual has no chance of getting similar treatment.

Re: Burning man defeats PayPal

#77
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that certainly sounds like half of a good story.

Your point is well taken, but I have never seen a comment, here or elsewhere, where someone lauded the great PayPal service or the quick conflict resolution. It's always about being blindsided. Folks, if you have GOOD stories, those are worth posting for balance.

I am, among other things, pwelch@gmail.com.

Of course, this means that every Patrick, Patricia, Pedro, Paul, or Penelope Welch who leaves a numeral or something off their email address thinks they are pwelch@gmail.com. Or one of their colleagues or friends thinks they are pwelch@gmail.com.

Long story made short, some idiot set up a Paypal account on my email address and now I can't get it off. I've contacted Paypal and nothing came of it.

Re: Burning man defeats PayPal

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that certainly sounds like half of a good story.

Yeah, this is the sort of thing that happens when a business decides that it will simply terminate communication with a customer without explanation. We don't get to hear their side of the story. The customer has no idea what's going on. That's a pretty bad business practice. I've heard enough insane PayPal stories from enough people that I trust such that I have no trouble believing pinksoda.

> We don't get to hear their side of the story. The customer has no idea what's going on. That's a pretty bad business practice.

That is the problem with pay pal. Dealing with them is like dealing with a roach motel: data and money go in, but nothing comes out. A sign of how abusive they are is that you cannot get a telephone number for them. There is no one you can call. No one you can send a certified/registered letter. Everything has to be via email.

Re: Burning man defeats PayPal

#79
post #50
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point is well taken, but I have never seen a comment, here or elsewhere, where someone lauded the great PayPal service or the quick conflict resolution. It's always about being blindsided. Folks, if you have GOOD stories, those are worth posting for balance.

The problem is, no amount of good stories can repair the damage done to those who trusted PayPal because "it works OK for most people". They may even have great customer support most of the time, but if they still do stuff like this, it reason enough to be very careful: 1) Never solely rely on PayPal for your income. 2) Never keep large amounts in your PayPal account - they can be come PayPals for 6m+ at a moments no…

>1) Never solely rely on PayPal for your income.

This is VERY important to remember. If your business is making a good chunk of change a month you should be able to afford the card card processing fee your self. Get a REAL bank account, preferable somewhere local so you can go in and talk face-to-face with a person if an issue arises- more likely to get results this way. It's also easier for you to get scammed by scammers with paypal, not so much with a real bank as they will fight for you.

I am not saying, "never use paypal". As your business grows and matures make sure the way you handle your finances does as well. If you are able to process cards yourself you can also sell that service to other people or use it in another business venture. Build your empire, not someone else's.

Also hire/lease accountants. If you must use paypal for business ventures buy the business account. A lot of stories I've heard were from people who still used a personal account for their business.

Re: Burning man defeats PayPal

#80

I refuse to go near PayPal. We don't accept it for PadPressed. We might be losing some revenue, but I can't support paypal / leave ourselves open to the shit they pull. Same thing with a conference we're putting on in October. Not allowing PayPal as an option. I hope WePay or someone else succeeds as being a viable+robust alternative.

Use daily sweep.
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