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Earthworms can reproduce in Mars soil simulant

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Re: Earthworms can reproduce in Mars soil simulant

#71

Post by chmod775 »

Houshalter wrote: post #61
foxhop wrote: post #44

It's crazy how scientists are researching worms for Mars and yet our scientists in agriculture actively preach practices that compact soil and kill soil biology. Monsanto chemicals and John Deeres tractors are ruining systems that literally self renew. Maybe we should try to work with earth's nature here before trying to emulate it on another planet?

Do you have a source for any of this?

I believe he's referring to the usual Monsanto horror stories, which always receive plenty of discussion on HN.

Try putting "monsanto" in the search field at the bottom.

Re: Earthworms can reproduce in Mars soil simulant

#72

Post by solarengineer »

foxhop wrote: post #44

It's crazy how scientists are researching worms for Mars and yet our scientists in agriculture actively preach practices that compact soil and kill soil biology. Monsanto chemicals and John Deeres tractors are ruining systems that literally self renew. Maybe we should try to work with earth's nature here before trying to emulate it on another planet?

This tendency of "solve this problem first, instead of this other thing" is rather unfortunate. Why not work on both? Or get the right people to fix what you'd like?

Using earthworms is not new at all - this has been going on for hundreds of years in agrarian societies.

Re: Earthworms can reproduce in Mars soil simulant

#73

Post by Tuna-Fish »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #57
Tuna-Fish wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then everything needs to be made of fire-retardant materials. Reducing the nitrogen content of the atmosphere has little deleterious effects for people, but makes fires easier to start, hotter, and harder to put out.

If you reduce the amount of nitrogen, and don't replace it with oxygen , it doesn't have all that big of an effect on fires. And in trade it becomes vastly easier to contain the pressure.

Yes, it really does.

The issue is that the inert nitrogen has a really important role in carrying away heat from the flame. Fire is a dynamic reaction where temperature and speed is determined basically by how much heat a set of reagents produce/how much heat is carried away in the waste products. Nitrogen doesn't participate in the chemical reaction, but it gets heated alongside the waste gases, and so it reduces the temperature of the fire.

In a pure 0.2bar oxygen atmosphere, anything that would smoulder or burn slowly in standard atmosphere burn rapidly with a bright flame instead, and some things that you'd normally not consider flammable can sustain flame.

This is the reason the space station maintains a normal atmosphere instead of a thin pure oxygen one.

Conversely, if you double the amount of nitrogen (without reducing the amount of oxygen) in the air, almost nothing burns anymore.

Re: Earthworms can reproduce in Mars soil simulant

#74

Post by foxhop »

solarengineer wrote: post #72
foxhop wrote: post #44

It's crazy how scientists are researching worms for Mars and yet our scientists in agriculture actively preach practices that compact soil and kill soil biology. Monsanto chemicals and John Deeres tractors are ruining systems that literally self renew. Maybe we should try to work with earth's nature here before trying to emulate it on another planet?

This tendency of "solve this problem first, instead of this other thing" is rather unfortunate. Why not work on both? Or get the right people to fix what you'd like? Using earthworms is not new at all - this has been going on for hundreds of years in agrarian societies.

I didn't say it was new, I said we are actively killing earth worms on our planet and destroying self renewing systems. One doesn't have to "use" earthworms, they are part of nature and work without needing any guidance our inputs. Simply leave the worms and other soil biology alone and they self renew!

Re: Earthworms can reproduce in Mars soil simulant

#75

Post by foxhop »

Houshalter wrote: post #61
foxhop wrote: post #44

It's crazy how scientists are researching worms for Mars and yet our scientists in agriculture actively preach practices that compact soil and kill soil biology. Monsanto chemicals and John Deeres tractors are ruining systems that literally self renew. Maybe we should try to work with earth's nature here before trying to emulate it on another planet?

Do you have a source for any of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1aR5OLgcc0

For more on this topic, please research:

- no-till farming

- polycultures (no monocultures)

- cover crops (or cover soil when not in use)

- reduce or eliminate chemical inputs

- permaculture

Re: Earthworms can reproduce in Mars soil simulant

#76

Post by aetherson »

marrone12 wrote: post #12
aetherson wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't really need to be radiation shielding or light emitting. People don't need to live there, just plants and animals. And insolation on Mars is sufficient for light.

Excessive radiation can also kill plants and animals

Background radiation in Mars is way lower than would be necessary to kill plants and, like, it might increase cancer rates in animals, but the kind of animals we'd want to breed there have short lifespans and we don't care if they get a few tumors.

Re: Earthworms can reproduce in Mars soil simulant

#77

Post by vkou »

adrianN wrote: post #68
vkou wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even cheaper to construct and use all that stuff on Earth.

That doesn't help a establish a Mars colony, which pretty much rules out that option if you want to establish a Mars colony.

It does, because you can figure out how to make all this stuff work[1] without spending hundreds of billions of dollars going to Mars. You'll also probably discover that you don't actually want to establish a Mars colony.

[1] We don't actually know how to make it work. The Biosphere 2 project was a spectacular failure, and it operated with a much less difficult set of constraints.

Re: Earthworms can reproduce in Mars soil simulant

#78

Post by ethbro »

QAPereo wrote: post #62
ethbro wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not risk adjusted.

Compared to the risk of Mars? I take your point, but let’s be realistic about our odds on Mars without Earth backing it all up.

Granted. And initially, sure, but aiming long term for a single-planetary culture that took 3.8 billion years to develop seems shortsighted.

The risk of that life snuffing out may be small, but the time cost of replacement should that happen is huge.

Re: Earthworms can reproduce in Mars soil simulant

#79

Post by Houshalter »

foxhop wrote: post #75
Houshalter wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for any of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1aR5OLgcc0 For more on this topic, please research: - no-till farming - polycultures (no monocultures) - cover crops (or cover soil when not in use) - reduce or eliminate chemical inputs - permaculture

Most farming is no-till now, because of the "chemicals" you seem to hate.

Re: Earthworms can reproduce in Mars soil simulant

#80

Post by foxhop »

Houshalter wrote: post #79
foxhop wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1aR5OLgcc0 For more on this topic, please research: - no-till farming - polycultures (no monocultures) - cover crops (or cover soil when not in use) - reduce or eliminate chemical inputs - permaculture

Most farming is no-till now, because of the "chemicals" you seem to hate.

That is false. Most farm land is tilled, plowed, driven on by machines for seeding and harvest, and disturbed regardless of the chemical inputs.
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