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Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

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Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#71

Post by athenot »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #67
ruffrey wrote: post #57

The real solution to the problem, as I see it, is not even Net Neutrality (though I strongly support Net Neutrality). The solution is to break the monopolistic stranglehold on last-mile internet service. If it were possible to have competition in the last-mile ISP space, then consumers could vote with their wallets and choose those ISPs who supported Net Neutrality. An alternate partial solution would be to force com…

We've already got cellular data service that's much better than the first DSL line my family got. That stranglehold is weaker than you might think.

While RF transmissions keep getting better and better, sending data over a link where you own the entire spectrum (Copper, fiber) is always going to be faster to maket a given speed than doing so in an environment where you share spectrum and interferences with the rest of the world.

This week I'm upgrading my connection to gigabit up/down over DOCSIS 3.1. While my own wifi supports near gigabit speeds, it will be a while before whole neighborhoods can enjoy the same over cellular service.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#72

Post by cletus »

I'm all in favour of treating Internet access as the "fourth utility". It's clear it's become almost as essential to modern life as electricity.

I do however find the doom and gloom prognostications around Title II repeal to be incredibly hyperbolic and unhelpful. Fact is, Title II was only introduced in 2015. It's not like repeal in 2017 is going to end the Internet overnight.

There are three problems here:

1. The US has a harebrained notion of "competition" in creating regional monopolies.

2. It actually doesn't make much sense to build multiple last-mile networks. This is called an overbuild and is rather wasteful given the capex involved. It's also why strict rules are in place for utilities: it underscores the fact that utilities are monopolies and seeks to prevent overbuilds.

3. ISPs have been allowed to frame the debate on peering with outright falsehoods. Specifically, the likes of Comcast claim that it's "unfair" that the likes of Netflix can "push" data onto their network for free no less. Netflix of course isn't pushing anything. Comcast's customers are requesting it.

It's all just a thinly-veiled attempt to stifle VOD providers to prop up dying (yet profitable) cable TV businesses. The fact that politicians aren't able to or don't want to see through this is both unsurprising and disappointing.

Adopting net neutrality laws at a state level is an interesting idea that may force Federal regulatino. I mean what's worse that one set of Federal rules for a large company? 50 sets of state rules, that's what.

Even if just CA and NY adopt this, that's already a sizable amount of the population.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#73

Post by atomi »

hermitdev wrote: post #63
CalChris wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 10th Amendment is not well regarded by the Supreme Court. In US v Sprague the Court said it “added nothing to the [Constitution] as originally ratified“. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Sprague

Additionally, I think one could easily argue that the interstate commerce clause would prevail as States attempting to regulate interstate commerce. Otherwise, they could only enforce net-neutrality on connections entirely contained within their own state (good luck showing that's the case).

A lot of Services are headquartered in California: Apple, Facebook, Google, Netflix, Hulu, Yahoo, Dropbox, Reddit, Imgur et al. These services could well band together and lobby very influentially to regulate neutral access to all in-state broadband traffic. I don't think it would be very smart for the telecoms to push their tier garbage in California.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#74

Post by CalChris »

24gttghh wrote: post #62
CalChris wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 10th Amendment is not well regarded by the Supreme Court. In US v Sprague the Court said it “added nothing to the [Constitution] as originally ratified“. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Sprague

I'm missing how that case relates to the 10th amendment, as it seems to primarily deal with Article V.

The appellees tried to use the 10th and the Court said no and then further said the 10th is basically a legal truism.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/282/716.html

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#75

Post by jandrese »

danjoc wrote: post #38
jandrese wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way did Net Neutrality prevent people from starting an ISP? Please be specific.

I would suggest you read what Mr Pai said. He went into this subject. https://www.recode.net/2017/12/14/16777356/full-transcript-a... Small internet services were being shut out due to the Title II regulations.

His argument appears to be that it was too much paperwork for a startup ISP. I have to admit I have no idea if this is the case, but it seems like someone running cables/fiber across a private land should already be adept at filing out paperwork.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#76

Post by danjoc »

rosser wrote: post #65
danjoc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are specific examples in the comments I quoted. Mr Pai named more specific examples in the transcript I linked to. You seem to be in a state of blind rage and unable to read anything. If you'd like a deep dive level of information, you could try contacting some of the named companies and associations, like http://www.wispa.org/ I'm sure they'd be happy to fill you in, if you're willing to listen to them. This i…

> You seem to be in a state of blind rage and unable to read anything. This is not how you do discourse on the internet — asserting the emotional state (or ability to read) of people on the other side of the screen. I'm quite calm, thanks; I simply reject Pai's agenda-serving statements as anything but agenda-serving (and also a little bit "appeal to authority", but I'm not feeling terribly inclined to chase that not…

>cite examples

I did, in the post you are responding to.

>>>>Do you have any examples? Or any reason to believe that the startup ISPs will bother with anyone outside of a major metro area?

>>>the Wireless Internet Service Providers Association, which represents small fixed wireless companies that typically operate in rural America

>>http://www.wispa.org/

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#78

Post by rosser »

danjoc wrote: post #76
rosser wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to be in a state of blind rage and unable to read anything. This is not how you do discourse on the internet — asserting the emotional state (or ability to read) of people on the other side of the screen. I'm quite calm, thanks; I simply reject Pai's agenda-serving statements as anything but agenda-serving (and also a little bit "appeal to authority", but I'm not feeling terribly inclined to chase that not…

>cite examples I did, in the post you are responding to. >>>>Do you have any examples? Or any reason to believe that the startup ISPs will bother with anyone outside of a major metro area? >>>the Wireless Internet Service Providers Association, which represents small fixed wireless companies that typically operate in rural America >> http://www.wispa.org/

I really don't find a lobbyist organization's web site to be any more compelling than Pai's comments, sorry. They're going to offer just as much cherry-picked, agenda-serving propaganda as he is, and won't discuss the issue honestly or transparently either.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#79

Post by lumisota »

cletus wrote: post #72

I'm all in favour of treating Internet access as the "fourth utility". It's clear it's become almost as essential to modern life as electricity. I do however find the doom and gloom prognostications around Title II repeal to be incredibly hyperbolic and unhelpful. Fact is, Title II was only introduced in 2015. It's not like repeal in 2017 is going to end the Internet overnight. There are three problems here: 1. The U…

Title II was only introduced as a result of the Open Internet Order (from 2010) being overturned. Net neutrality principles have been sanctioned by the FCC since 2005; removing title II designation and moving away from these principles is a shift that should not be understated.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#80

Post by s73ver_ »

ruffrey wrote: post #57

The real solution to the problem, as I see it, is not even Net Neutrality (though I strongly support Net Neutrality). The solution is to break the monopolistic stranglehold on last-mile internet service. If it were possible to have competition in the last-mile ISP space, then consumers could vote with their wallets and choose those ISPs who supported Net Neutrality. An alternate partial solution would be to force com…

Neither one of those is a true solution. For one, we currently do not live in a climate where competition is happening. Every NN supporter would love for that to happen, but for now it's not. Second, not every place can support competing ISPs. Do the people who live in the inner city or out in rural areas not deserve a neutral net?
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