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Are your beliefs consistent? Take the test...

philosophersnet.com

71–80 of 84 posts

Re: Are your beliefs consistent? Take the test...

#71
post #30

I escaped unscathed, but I will say this: I was squirming as I answered a lot of the questions. Having denied the existence of God, how am I to have an opinion the nature of divinity? But it made me realize that I'm actually more sympathetic to the notion of God than I had thought. Apparently, a preponderance of evidence suggesting the existence of a very wise and powerful being would be enough to make me a believer.…

Is that not the most logical answer? I am an atheist (and philosopher) only because there is no direct evidence for the existence of God. If extraordinary evidence would present itself to the contrary (e.g., lightning striking Mount Rushmore to write out, "I AM THE LORD, YOUR GOD") I'd have some serious praying to do.

Re: Are your beliefs consistent? Take the test...

#72
post #60

I got a direct hit because of a contradiction between question 5 (I answered true) and question 16 (I answered false). Actually question 16 strikes me as meaningless. If god "creates" something, that something must be a physical thing, which potentially influences our world (unlike the Dragon in the proverbial garage). That, or I misunderstood the meaning of "create". Squares and circles are not physical things. They…

I don't think you really believe that god can do anything. Wouldn't a god that can do anything truly be able to do anything, even logically inconsistent things? You to me seem to believe that god can do a great many things but not anything. Your answer to 5 doesn't seem to be your actual belief.

First, I don't believe in God, so this isn't a matter of belief but a matter of definition.

Second, I have no problem with God creating a world where the principle of contradiction doesn't hold. What I have a problem with, is God modifying a realm that depend only on a set of fixed definitions. This is not impossible, this is unthinkable.

Also, we have complete control over such realms. These are just concepts. There is no notion of "can" or "can't" there. Mathematical realms are just self consistent. By definition. So, talking about what God "can" or "can't" do in these realms is meaningless.

Re: Are your beliefs consistent? Take the test...

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you know that squares or circles are outside our world? I know it because of my overall education. If I had a different education, I might have believed otherwise. Anyway, I'm pretty darn sure of myself, and I have actual arguments to back it up. Have you ever seen a circle? A real circle, and not just a clever disposition of graphite on a sheet of paper. Likewise, have you ever seen a number? A real number,…

Depends on whether or not you consider yourself Platonist. Still, you fall into the same trap here that the ontological argument makes. Simply because a perfect instance can be posited in a system doesn't mean that such an instance must exist in that system.

I'm lost here. I know neither Platon nor ontology. Your last sentence sound right, but I don't see how it connects to my previous posts.

Re: Are your beliefs consistent? Take the test...

#74

You stated earlier that evolutionary theory is essentially true. However, you have now claimed that it is foolish to believe in God without certain, irrevocable proof that she exists. The problem is that there is no certain proof that evolutionary theory is true - even though there is overwhelming evidence that it is true. It is foolish to believe in something with zero evidence for it. Whether it's the celestial tea…

It really does seem like the questions are worded to create contradictions where there are none. Almost like the author is trying to trap people instead of being intellectually honest (or even a decent philosopher).

Re: Are your beliefs consistent? Take the test...

#75
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the authors did not think of all possibilities. "Arguing back" might help them to improve the logical engine. I guess what I mean to say is that, rather than arguing back, we could contact them with suggestions. Eg one thing they did not seem to consider is (my case) some of the implications of differences between the natural and the supernatural (say, God and the hypothetical Loch Ness monster).

uhmmmmmm, how would the Loch Ness monster be any less natural than God? ;)

Why, the other way, of course. But my point was, the authors have not considered all the (potentially) important aspects, and we may help them with this. Or just have fun.

Re: Are your beliefs consistent? Take the test...

#76
Just worth highlighting this (as a lot of discussion seems to be on the bullets and contradictions):

Rules of the game

The aim of the game is to get across the intellectual battleground unscathed. There are two types of injury you can suffer.

A direct hit occurs when you answer in a way which implies a logical contradiction. We have been very careful to make sure that only strict contradictions result in a direct hit. However, we do make two caveats.

First, because you only have choices between pre-selected and carefully worded statements, you might find that you have taken a direct hit because the statement closest to your own conviction leads into a contradiction. However, had you phrased the statement yourself, you may have been able to avoid the contradiction while expressing a very similar belief.

Such possibilities are unavoidable given the constraints on the game. We merely ask that you do not take it personally if you suffer a direct hit and don't get too frustrated if the choices we offer you sometimes seem to force you into a choice you'd rather not make.

You have to bite a bullet if your choices have an implication that most would find strange, incredible or unpalatable. There is more room for disagreement here, since what strikes many people as extraordinary or bizarre can strike others as normal. So, again, please do not get too upset if we judge you have bitten a bullet. Maybe it is our world-view which is warped!

Re: Are your beliefs consistent? Take the test...

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on whether or not you consider yourself Platonist. Still, you fall into the same trap here that the ontological argument makes. Simply because a perfect instance can be posited in a system doesn't mean that such an instance must exist in that system.

I'm lost here. I know neither Platon nor ontology. Your last sentence sound right, but I don't see how it connects to my previous posts.

Sorry, fell into a little philosophical opaqueness there. Platonist is meant to refer to the ancient philosopher Plato. What he may be most famous for is his theory of Forms. The idea is that there are two worlds: the material world which we can perceive directly and another realm that is "intelligible" but not directly perceivable. We can refer to these as the sensible and supersensible realms. The supersensible realm is accessible through thought and abstraction: it is a world of perfection. It is this realm where perfect circles and shapes and ideas lie. In the Republic, he uses the allegory of the cave to describe the relationship between the supersensible realm and the sensible realm. In a sense, the sensible realm can be imagined as the shadows of figures on a cave wall, where we are unable to turn around and see the figures themselves and only to perceive their projections into the sensible realm. The most modern reinterpretation of Plato's philosophy is present in Judeochristian philosophy. Many would go so far as to say that Christianity is simply a dressed-up reinterpretation of Platonism.

My second section was meant to deal with a proof of God's existence known as the "Ontological Argument." I'm going to reproduce it hear and quote liberally from Wikipeda (I'm kind of lazy):

1. If I am thinking of the Greatest Being Thinkable, then I can think of no being greater 1a. If it is false that I can think of no being greater, it is false I am thinking of the Greatest Being Thinkable 2. Being is greater than not being 3. If the being I am thinking of does not exist, then it is false that I can think of no being greater. 4. If the being I am thinking of does not exist, then it is false that I am thinking of the Greatest Being Thinkable Conclusion: If I am thinking of the Greatest Being Thinkable, then I am thinking of a being that exists

I know that you are not attempting to prove the existence of God, but the argument bares some similarity, simply replace "Greatest Being" with "Perfect Circle." If there is no circle more perfect then, by the same argument, such a circle must exist. The trouble is this argument is deceptively simple. Bertrand Russell notably said, "The argument does not, to a modern mind, seem very convincing, but it is easier to feel convinced that it must be fallacious than it is to find out precisely where the fallacy lies."

Perhaps my favorite refutation comes from David Hume:

[T]here is an evident absurdity in pretending to demonstrate a matter of fact, or to prove it by any arguments a priori. Nothing is demonstrable, unless the contrary implies a contradiction. Nothing, that is distinctly conceivable, implies a contradiction. Whatever we conceive as existent, we can also conceive as non-existent. There is no being, therefore, whose non-existence implies a contradiction. Consequently there is no being, whose existence is demonstrable.

In this way we can see that conception (of a form or of God or of a mathematical concept) does not lead directly to any statements of existence or non-existence: they simply "are."

Re: Are your beliefs consistent? Take the test...

#79
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the question was not whether Sutcliffe was justified in committing rape, but whether he was justified in believing that he was doing the will of God. If "firm inner conviction" justifies a belief, and Sutcliffe had firm inner conviction, then Sutcliffe was justified in his belief.

Well, it's a bit like this: 1. Is it justifiable to walk into a shop? 2. John Does walked into a shop and murdered all present. Was he justified in walking into the shop? Answering yes to 1 and no to 2 is a contradiction in the same way. But, is it really valid to separate the action of walking into the shop with the murder of those present? Is it really valid to separate Sutcliffe's belief from his actions?

To answer your questions, yes and yes. It's clearly possible to walk into a shop without killing anyone, and the analogy to Sutcliffe holds: it's possible to believe that God wants you to rape and murder prostitutes, without actually doing it.

Condoning rape and murder only comes into play if you also answer that God is the source of all morality. In that case, doing God's will is by definition moral, and if he wants you to rape and murder, well, you bite the bullet.

Re: Are your beliefs consistent? Take the test...

#80
post #65
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the question was not whether Sutcliffe was justified in committing rape, but whether he was justified in believing that he was doing the will of God. If "firm inner conviction" justifies a belief, and Sutcliffe had firm inner conviction, then Sutcliffe was justified in his belief.

What does "justifies a belief" mean? Serious question, I really don't understand this.

Wikipedia to the rescue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_justification

Basically, a belief is justified if there are good reasons for believing it. What are "good" reasons? It depends on your philosophy. But presumably the reasons are separate from the belief its self. If you cite certain reasons for believing one thing, but then refuse to believe something else on the same basis, you're being inconsistent.

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