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How do you move out of a smarthome?

shkspr.mobi

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Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#71

Post by michaelt »

vincentkriek wrote: post #40
ashark wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We may be listing ours soon, and if we do I'm even swapping the LED bulbs for whatever's cheapest at the store. They're only about a year old and the house will sell for zero more dollars if I leave them up.

Is leaving lights in the house you sell an American thing? Unless it's built in lights like spots, all the bulbs and even fixtures usually move with the person where I'm from (the Netherlands).

In the UK part of the sale process is agreeing which "fixtures and fittings" are part of the sale. There will generally be a form in the mountains of paperwork involved in a house purchase.

Most sellers will leave anything fixed to the building like lights, sinks, toilets, doors, door handles, sockets, fitted carpets, fitted kitchen appliances, plants that are buried in the garden, fires and fireplaces, television aerials, boilers and radiators, built-in cupboards, permanently installed mirrors, and so on.

Things that aren't fixed in quite the same way have different conventions. For example paintings, light shades, freestanding lamps, rugs, curtains, plants in freestanding tubs, and freestanding appliances are often taken by the seller.

It's always possible to negotiate, of course; if the buyer and seller agree on something different, that's perfectly legal. And there are horror stories of overly trusting buyers discovering the seller has removed the turf from the lawn, and things like that.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#72

Post by junkcollector »

0culus wrote: post #67
junkcollector wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fire code requires that fire alarms be networked to alert people in all rooms in the event of a fire. Older un-networked units are grandfathers until you begin replacement. Wifi networking is allowed by the code, but for obvious reasons, the inspector has to verify that it works and is set up correctly which requires running wifi. Personally I would not purchase a home that was configured with nest or other home auto…

Fire code where? Requirement to be networked is a new thing to me, at least as far as single family dwellings go.

I've dealt with it in the state fire code for Massachusetts and Maryland. I believe it is also in the New York and New Jersey code books. I'm unsure of other states but, it is a relatively recent adoption in all of the aforementioned states and I expect that it will be common in nearly all states soon.

If it seems to be a bit much just be glad you aren't in Massachusetts where they are currently trying to get arc flash rated 110V breakers added as a requirement to the electric code.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#73

Post by commandar »

Silhouette wrote: post #62
ashleyn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The not adding value to the house bit is important. Nobody really knows about or cares enough about home automation to justify an added expense on the cost of the home. Maybe this will change when the "iPhone of home automation" finally comes out. Also Z-wave stuff is EXPENSIVE! so if it's not going to up the value of the house then I'm basically giving that stuff away for free.

The not adding value to the house bit is important. Nobody really knows about or cares enough about home automation to justify an added expense on the cost of the home. I'd actually go further. I do care about home automation, because it is almost certainly a negative and possibly a deal-breaker for me to put any offer in to buy a place. If it has anything installed that has any form of off-site access or any depende…

The interesting legacy corollary here is that it's completely bog standard for home security systems to be left in place when a house is sold.

I say this because the systems that ADT, etc sell these days are largely made up of white labeled COTS Z-Wave sensors with the security panel just being a hub and interface to the Z-Wave network.

The house I moved into this past year is covered by sensors for an old ADT system that are useless to me, and I've been slowly removing them and replacing them with equivalent Z-Wave e.g., door and motion sensors as I get to it. Whenever I move, I'll take the hub with me. Any sensors that get left behind would be almost entirely equivalent to an old security system being left in the house except for the fact that they'd be pairable with any system the new owner decides to put in place since they're actually standards based.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#74

Post by saiya-jin »

adrianmonk wrote: post #55
jasonkostempski wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider it to devalue the home. I don't ever want that kind of thing in my house but, even if I did, I'm not going to trust anyone to properly transfer whatever cloud access they have to things in my home, so it will all have to be removed anyway.

This sort of thing happens with used cars. If it's all stock, the value is general higher than if the car has been modified with various aftermarket parts. I believe the main reason is that a stock vehicle is less of an unknown when it comes to repairs and maintenance.

stuff like engine chipping puts loads of extra stress on whole engine/drivetrain/clutch setup that original car was not designed for. There are really no free lunches out there.

Even aesthetical changes are a big warning - this one has been somehow tampered with, and you have no clue what was changed and for what reason.

For example I bought some older BMW few years back. When i went for some complete checkup after cca 2 years, mechanic told me that car has been lowered a bit and brakes are some lightweight version. It was my first car and I didn't notice, and effin' dealer didn't mention it. All good but - lowered car has issue in places like underground parkings, where road is steep and sometimes I hit the bottom of the car when road bends too much. So because some idiot previous owner wanting to squeeze a bit extra driveability out of a diesel car (although amazing diesel it is), I now have these crappy consequences and have to drive carefully like with some ferrari. I've hit the bottom in various situations maybe 20x so far, maybe one day it will break something crucial and I will be left in some nasty situation with broken car.

Yeah, you want untampered (more) predictable stock cars.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#75

Post by fredophile »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #24
jasonkostempski wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider it to devalue the home. I don't ever want that kind of thing in my house but, even if I did, I'm not going to trust anyone to properly transfer whatever cloud access they have to things in my home, so it will all have to be removed anyway.

If your house uses good standard local communication protocols, like Z-Wave, ZigBee, or Insteon, you can take your cloud devices, and a new owner can just buy a new hub device with their own cloud account and connect the devices to it. Doesn't matter what the other person has in their account at that juncture. That being said, if I was ever to leave home automation hardware behind, it'd be a "if you want to pay x on…

Where I live the general rule is anything that was attached is considered part of the home you're buying/selling. If you don't want the light switches and thermostat being sold they should be removed and replaced before you show the home.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#76

Post by mindslight »

junkcollector wrote: post #72
0culus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fire code where? Requirement to be networked is a new thing to me, at least as far as single family dwellings go.

I've dealt with it in the state fire code for Massachusetts and Maryland. I believe it is also in the New York and New Jersey code books. I'm unsure of other states but, it is a relatively recent adoption in all of the aforementioned states and I expect that it will be common in nearly all states soon. If it seems to be a bit much just be glad you aren't in Massachusetts where they are currently trying to get arc fla…

> trying to get arc flash rated 110V breakers added as a requirement to the electric code.

Are you just talking about MA adopting newer versions of the NEC that require AFCI [0] more places, or is there really something new related to arc flash?

[0] A proprietary software hellhole, like everything else these days.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#77

Post by slantyyz »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #24
jasonkostempski wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider it to devalue the home. I don't ever want that kind of thing in my house but, even if I did, I'm not going to trust anyone to properly transfer whatever cloud access they have to things in my home, so it will all have to be removed anyway.

If your house uses good standard local communication protocols, like Z-Wave, ZigBee, or Insteon, you can take your cloud devices, and a new owner can just buy a new hub device with their own cloud account and connect the devices to it. Doesn't matter what the other person has in their account at that juncture. That being said, if I was ever to leave home automation hardware behind, it'd be a "if you want to pay x on…

>> That being said, if I was ever to leave home automation hardware behind, it'd be a "if you want to pay x on top of the already agreed upon price for the property, I'll leave it", where x is the cost for me to just buy new modules for my new place.

If you live in any major urban center that request would likely get laughed at since the value of your depreciated hardware likely wouldn't even count as a rounding error on the purchase price. Some buyers might even want a discount on your selling price because of the extra work they'd have to do to get rid of the gear.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#78

Post by fuzzieozzie »

All internet connected devices in our home are identified by a special "home" email, and info. No personally identified info -- just house identified info (of course not with the house address!)

I wonder how many license agreements I did not follow by doing this?

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#79

Post by whatshisface »

pythonaut_16 wrote: post #63
wyldfire wrote: post #20

> do we hand over all the cloud passwords as well? Or do we factory reset everything and let them go through the dull process of setting up new accounts? Wow, I hope this is rhetorical. No, you never give anyone your password for anything. Yes, you absolutely let them go through the dull process of setting up new accounts. > When I move into a house, do I want to spend the first day looking up manuals online to try a…

That could be a cool exercise for your home. Document the various quirks and routines in a Github repository, then the new owner can gain access by forking it. Taking it a step farther, your family could submit issues or pull requests for various issues as they come up, generating an easy list of things that should be documented or fixed. Now realistically the person buying your house probably doesn't know how to use…

It would be in your interest to conceal the problems that your house has, in order to compete with the ignorance offered by everyone else. While this would benefit humanity, nobody would do it.
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