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The impossibility of intelligence explosion

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Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#71
post #63

I'm not sure that I ever read a piece written with so much certainty and arrogance on a field that is completely unexplored. Just as an example: "The basic premise of intelligence explosion — that a “seed AI” will arise, with greater-than-human problem solving ability, leading to a sudden, recursive, runaway intelligence improvement loop — is false." From the little that we know as of today I call bullshit. Even Alph…

Games have a clear ends goal. How to you measure getting better at ethics?

Probably you don't, it's likely an unverifiable proposition. But "better at ethics" is a completely different question than "better at implementing a given ethical stance".

The people frightened of intelligence explosion are worried about something like an AI version of existentialism: a mind that accepts some moral system without even trying to justify it, and then optimizes accordingly. It's certainly possible to just accept as axiomatic ethical standards which don't come from any intrinsic feature of the world.

I've seen lots of essays (not this one) claim that morality will "inherently" emerge from intelligence, which I think is absurd. Shit, my moral views aren't an 'inherent' product of anything except my evolution-shaped brain that feels empathy.

That's where I think "AI won't be like humans so it's fine!" essays screw up so catastrophically; "not like humans" is exactly what people are worried about.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#72
post #50

This article has too many holes to count and reads more like someone in denial. --- BUT, as an aside: I think a decent argument exists for the non-certainty of intelligence explosion. The argument goes like this: it takes an intelligence of level X to engineer an intelligence of level X+1. First, it may well be that humans are not an intelligence of level X, and reach our limit before we engineer an intelligence supe…

I think everyone agrees about "non-certainty". Where people disagree is on how likely an intelligence explosion is; and in particular, whether it is likely enough to warrant expending effort to plan for it.

We don't know enough to know whether it's possible. If it is, we don't know enough to know what approach to follow to get there.

Is it worth spending effort to plan for it? Maybe some. But if we don't know what approach to follow to get there, we don't know what it's capabilities and limitations will be. That means we don't know what we have to plan for. Any planning will therefore be either very speculative or very abstract.

I wouldn't start pouring effort into planning for it, as if were the most important problem in the world...

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#73
post #55

> Intelligence expansion can only come from a co-evolution of the mind, its sensorimotor modalities, and its environment. This is misleading. It's true in a sense - the environment does matter - but artificial intelligence can create artificial environments in which to learn, and simulate them faster than humanly possible. Those environments could be evolved together with the intelligence. So there is still the possi…

While I agree with you, I thought I would be pendantic and point out there are not enough people in the world for there likely to be anyone with an IQ of 200. IQ is normalised to a mean of 100 and a SD of 15 - 200 is 6.67 SD above the mean.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#74

I'm not sure that I ever read a piece written with so much certainty and arrogance on a field that is completely unexplored. Just as an example: "The basic premise of intelligence explosion — that a “seed AI” will arise, with greater-than-human problem solving ability, leading to a sudden, recursive, runaway intelligence improvement loop — is false." From the little that we know as of today I call bullshit. Even Alph…

It is not completely unexplored. We already turned a superintelligence loose to create thinking machines (von Neumann and the von Neumann architecture). The only data point to date indicates that doing so doesn't lead to an intelligence explosion.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#75
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So emotions are a problem to be solved and moved past... I don't want your world. Dystopias suck.

I don't want that world either. But achieving it is a wet dream for a business. The challenge that Elon Musk et al are warning us about is what role will humans have after we achieve this dystopia.

> But achieving it is a wet dream for a business.

I don't know about that. Businesses depend on manipulating our emotions in order to get us to buy stuff.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#76
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games have a clear ends goal. How to you measure getting better at ethics?

Probably you don't, it's likely an unverifiable proposition. But "better at ethics" is a completely different question than "better at implementing a given ethical stance". The people frightened of intelligence explosion are worried about something like an AI version of existentialism: a mind that accepts some moral system without even trying to justify it, and then optimizes accordingly. It's certainly possible to j…

> I've seen lots of essays (not this one) claim that morality will "inherently" emerge from intelligence, which I think is absurd. Shit, my moral views aren't an 'inherent' product of anything except my evolution-shaped brain that feels empathy.

You're evolution-shaped brain is what an AI will become too. It won't start out super-human smart; it will evolve to an equal level. Then keep going. Morals are basically lower-level approximations which are beneficial for survival and AI's will certainly evolve those too.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#77
>A high-potential human 10,000 years ago would have been raised in a low-complexity environment, likely speaking a single language with fewer than 5,000 words

This is a pretty bold claim. Why so few words? Why not 2300 words? How can anyone know this? I think quite a few historians would disagree with the statement that pre-history was low-complexity environment.

>Of the people who have attempted to take over the world, hardly any seem to have had an exceptional intelligence.

How can the author even know this? We aren't particular good at measuring human intelligence when given direct access to a living cooperative subject and yet the author wants to pin his argument on calling Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan stupid?

> Our brains themselves were never a significant bottleneck in the AI-design process.

How can anyone know this?

We should be skeptical of the Strong-AI crowd's predictions of intelligence explosions but that skepticism should not take the form of unfounded and absurd claims.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#78
post #63

I'm not sure that I ever read a piece written with so much certainty and arrogance on a field that is completely unexplored. Just as an example: "The basic premise of intelligence explosion — that a “seed AI” will arise, with greater-than-human problem solving ability, leading to a sudden, recursive, runaway intelligence improvement loop — is false." From the little that we know as of today I call bullshit. Even Alph…

Games have a clear ends goal. How to you measure getting better at ethics?

Right? Imagine an AI from 1955, with a Ms. Manner's style of ethics. Imagine trying to deal with that 'frozen' AI for 25k years. yeesh!

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#79
Super Intelligence is the information theoretical variant of the perpetuum mobile.

Like the article made so aptly clear: No matter the performance of the machine, if its input is not varied, information-rich, complete enough, it will not learn. Mahoney formalized this by looking at the estimated number of bits a human brain processes during its lifetime. The internet currently does not hold enough information to equal the collective intelligence of the world's brains. A lot of this information can not be created freely nor deduced/infered from logical facts: it requires a bodily housing and sensory experience, and an investment of energy (and right now GPU farms take up way more calories than the brain).

Compare AGI with programmable digital money. A super intelligent AI, by a series of superior decisons, could eventually control all the money. But then there is no economy anymore, just one actor. That's like being the cool kid on the block owning the latest console, but nobody around left to make games for it. There is a hard non-computable limit on intelligence (shortest program to an output leading to a reward), because there is a limit on the amount of computing energy in our universe. But intelligence is also limited by human communication. How useful is an AGI-made proof if humans need aeons and travel to other universes to parse it? If intelligence were centralized by an AGI then there would be no need to explain anything to us: we'd be happily living in the matrix.

Some investment firms are just reading "software" whenever they read "AI". This allows them to apply their decade-old priors to what, today, is essentially the same. Yes, both the human intellect and human manual labour will see continued automation with software and hardware. I think many abuse rationality to justify their singularity concerns based on a very ape-like fear of competition. They learn how to do addition in their heads, and then see electronic calculators as existential threats. "What if they could do addition by themselves?".

The real threat is in "semi-autonomous software and hardware". Self-controlling "mindless" agents that perform to the whims of its masters. We face the repercussions of that way before we find out how to -- and have the courage to -- encode free will AGI into machines, a perpetuum mobile of ever-improving intent and intelligence.

Re: The impossibility of intelligence explosion

#80
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want that world either. But achieving it is a wet dream for a business. The challenge that Elon Musk et al are warning us about is what role will humans have after we achieve this dystopia.

> But achieving it is a wet dream for a business. I don't know about that. Businesses depend on manipulating our emotions in order to get us to buy stuff.

You can successfully manipulate emotions without having any of your own. Recommendation engines are getting really good at it.
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