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Orchid: a new surveillance-free layer on top of the existing Internet

orchidprotocol.com

71–80 of 196 posts

Re: Orchid: a new surveillance-free layer on top of the existing Internet

#71
This is needed but there should be more insight into the current surveillance problem and how Orchid solves it. This seems to be focused on China.

Because surveillance is a potentially serious problem, it should not be used cynically to market some new product that just adds another layer but doesn't really solve the problem.

For the average person its not China or Russia but their own state that is a bigger problem as they have power over them and can interfere with activism, journalism, dissent etc. The intensive profiling by Google, Facebook and others is another problem.

Was the Internet designed to be anonymous? Governments control access and can stomp down at will. ISPs and telcos know who you are, server and vpn providers know who you are, Facebook and Google have a lot of data on you. Only the very committed and technically adept can perhaps attempt any sort of anonymity.

Something like Musk's satellites with some basic free access may perhaps be the first of many steps to some kind of anonymity.

Re: Orchid: a new surveillance-free layer on top of the existing Internet

#73
post #68

Is there any thought given to the response to a node operator who is detected/proven to be operating the node for surveillance or compromise? What would the response be? Will tokens not be sold to such a node operator?

The goal of our network is to make it so that the network is protected as much as possible from users running compromised nodes. If you are a single node, you should not be able to do anything against the network. As the number of nodes you are in the system increases, the probability you will be able to pull of various forms of attacks against users of the network also increases. We are working on documenting these security tradeoffs in detail in our whitepaper (and any attempt I make to describe them here will be less accurate and thereby dangerous ;P).

However, it is worth noting at a super-super high level that we are hoping to get a large number of nodes running the network and we have parts of our system that involve proof of work in a way similar to a cryptocurrency blockchain like Bitcoin. If a node in the Bitcoin network is operating for the purpose of compromise, it need not be banned from mining blocks: the network is designed in a way to make it so that such a node would not be able to pull off the kinds of attacks that people care about unless it owns a significant percentage of the resources being applied to securing the network. Our network has similar properties.

Re: Orchid: a new surveillance-free layer on top of the existing Internet

#74
I understand the plan is to be open source, but can someone help me understand why it's not developed in the open? I mean, you can tell people you're not accepting external input at this stage, but why not let people watch it being developed? I can't think of any reason that doesn't make me think that the goal may be openness/transparency but not the practice. Or did I miss the link to the repo?

Re: Orchid: a new surveillance-free layer on top of the existing Internet

#75
post #72

Can I set up a relay node now?

Sorry, but we have not yet finished writing the code for this (let's just say it: "my fault" ;P). Even I am currently unable to start and integrate a new relay into a running network; this should be fixed in the near future and we will have all of our code available as open source under the AGPL3 license, and will be working hard to build up an inclusive community around the project.

Re: Orchid: a new surveillance-free layer on top of the existing Internet

#77
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a darknet or a way of accessing the clearnet or both?

Given your question's wording the answer is, at this time and as currently described, "a way of accessing the clearnet", with no already-existing features for hidden services.

That sounds like you are thinking of maybe adding hidden services in the future, am I reading you correctly?

Re: Orchid: a new surveillance-free layer on top of the existing Internet

#79
This sounds like a good idea. One problem with things like tor and i2p is you want to have tons of traffic so as to hide things from the various spies, but it is hard to get enough people to support nodes. Add a token and perhaps that problem will be solved.

Re: Orchid: a new surveillance-free layer on top of the existing Internet

#80

I understand the plan is to be open source, but can someone help me understand why it's not developed in the open? I mean, you can tell people you're not accepting external input at this stage, but why not let people watch it being developed? I can't think of any reason that doesn't make me think that the goal may be openness/transparency but not the practice. Or did I miss the link to the repo?

This is an interesting question; one which I feel for greatly, and one which we have been discussing internally. Not having this detail worked out before going public was probably a mistake of ours, particularly as now we keep getting distracted, but we are rapidly working on addressing the issue as quickly as possible. I am going to give you an answer to this but want to stress that this answer has not been vetted through anyone else and is a look behind the curtain (and I hope you can give us a little benefit of the doubt here, at least based on the track record of some of our developers).

One issue is that we have put a lot of effort into the whitepaper, and we really want people to review the concepts in the whitepaper and give us feedback on that, but I will say that it is highly likely (if not a foregone conclusion) that if we have source code available, code which we know isn't done yet as the whitepaper design has been leading ahead of the implementation in the code, that we are going to have people only downloading the code and giving us feedback on the code... but what we really need is feedback on the design, not the first draft implementation :(.

On the other side of this, our team includes someone from the Free Software Foundation who feels some strong moral pulls towards doing all of the development in the open immediately and yesterday. I have made sure that my code is ready to release on a moment's notice and still feel proud about what is out there (though there is one last super high-level thing in the organization of how the code for the network connects with code for services that I want to fix tonight, and issue that will be much easier to deal with fixing at the git level if I didn't think I'd be breaking anyone's clone).

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