Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I have no side code projects to show you

codementor.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 545 posts

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#71

Post by ng12 »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #29
shortsightedsid wrote: post #25

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

Side projects are for software what a portfolio is for other creative industries. You don't hire a designer sight unseen -- usually you ask for a sample. It makes perfect sense to expect the same of technology.

I can take a 10 minute look at a designer's portfolio and get reasonably accurate insight into their style and abilities.

Do you think a 10 minute scan of an arbitrary GitHub account is the same? I say decidedly not.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#72

Post by walshemj »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #29
shortsightedsid wrote: post #25

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

Side projects are for software what a portfolio is for other creative industries. You don't hire a designer sight unseen -- usually you ask for a sample. It makes perfect sense to expect the same of technology.

But creatives are allowed to put work done for others on their show real this is not true for professional jobs

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#73

Post by detaro »

sidlls wrote: post #64
kodablah wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only if you believe software development is neither engineering nor science, and is purely creative. I have to believe it "is neither engineering nor science, and is purely creative"? Only those extremes? I believe it is some of all 3 and I don't think requesting (i.e. not "demanding") a portfolio or prior work is any more unreasonable than not asking for it.

Fine, then you must believe it's mostly creative. Far more than you think it's engineering or science. Otherwise a portfolio would simply be at best an interesting conversation piece and not at all indicative of ability.

Why do you think a portfolio can't tell you about someones engineering abilities? Can engineering not be judged by looking at source (and potentially surrounding documents)? What would be missing for you to do that?

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#74

Post by ztratar »

It's great you're a passionate person, but this article's tone and implication is saying that's enough, and that projects shouldn't be viewed as a just ask.

As a career professional and founder of a career related company, I have some news for you: you clearly have the time and passion to create, but at nearly every chance when you have additional time, you're not putting it into programming.

Yes, you've found a job. That's great, but you would be experiencing more pay and a more accelerated career if you were spending 1/5th your free time on coding as well. If you want to blow glass, or draw, or write -- fantastic. But it's not wrong for a company to give the job to someone else, and...

BUILDING SIDE PROJECTS DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO BE IN THE TOP 1%.

More often than not, side projects are just a requirement. You don't have to love code like it's your calling to create a side project.

I recommend this to all software engineers: build side projects, and don't listen to this post as a calling to infer them as unjust.

Statistically speaking, building side projects is one of the best things you can do for your career.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#75

Post by bad_user »

kelnos wrote: post #38
warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

You're espousing a false dichotomy. The options in evaluating a candidate aren't merely "give them whiteboard coding problems" or "examine their side projects". Give them a take-home assignment. Give them an in-person assignment where they have several hours to complete a smallish design-and-build task. There are a lot more options, and I'm getting tired of people claiming they don't know how to evaluate technical ca…

Giving a candidate a "take-home assignment" is actually the most disrespectful of the options listed.

Unless you're an awesome company, with really cool projects and offering me a jaw dropping salary and benefits, then no, I'm not going to do free work for you. Even if you are an awesome company, people probably have to actually work for you to see that, so no, I'm not going to do free work for you.

I'd rather spend those hours doing work that I expose on GitHub.

> in-person assignment where they have several hours to complete a smallish design-and-build task

That's another proxy that's as useful (or as useless) as a coding exercise.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#76

Post by TAForObvReasons »

sidlls wrote: post #37
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side projects are for software what a portfolio is for other creative industries. You don't hire a designer sight unseen -- usually you ask for a sample. It makes perfect sense to expect the same of technology.

Only if you believe software development is neither engineering nor science, and is purely creative. It isn't, though, and demanding a portfolio is almost as terrible a practice as Cracking the Coding Interview style interviews.

In traditional engineering disciplines like civil engineering, organizing bodies and licensure communicate competency, applicability, and ethical awareness. Software development has no industry-wide equivalent. There are small certifications for Cisco et al but for the general practice there's no standard.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#77

Post by wvenable »

jorblumesea wrote: post #36

Am I the only one who likes side projects? I'm addicted to the idea of starting new projects in new languages. How many of them ever get completed or push into an environment is a different story... It's fresh, clean and filled with possibility. An existing code base is usually filled with hacks etc.

Some of my side projects exist only long enough to understand/solve the deep technical challenge required to make it work. Completing the project after that is just unfun work.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#78

Post by [deleted] »

icebraining wrote: post #59
kelnos wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're espousing a false dichotomy. The options in evaluating a candidate aren't merely "give them whiteboard coding problems" or "examine their side projects". Give them a take-home assignment. Give them an in-person assignment where they have several hours to complete a smallish design-and-build task. There are a lot more options, and I'm getting tired of people claiming they don't know how to evaluate technical ca…

This seems like a weird position to take from the employee's side. I'd much rather work a few hours on my own schedule and on projects I choose and that I can then show to multiple companies, than to have to write multiple custom hours-long projects for each company on a fixed day.

[deleted]

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#79

Post by km3k »

2trill2spill wrote: post #51
sbov wrote: post #19

I like to have side projects, but I still don't like to share them. People love to find reasons to reject, and an 18, 11, or 7 year long side project (the age of all my side projects) isn't really a fair representation of how I code today. Even as someone who enjoys side projects, the prospect of sharing a side project, and being criticized by a potential employer about the contents of it, turns it from "side project…

> Even as someone who enjoys side projects, the prospect of sharing a side project, and being criticized by a potential employer about the contents of it, turns it from "side project" to work. You should be able to take constructive criticism of your work regardless if it's a side project or not.

Even if they dive into a corner of your side project from 10 years ago that works, but you realize isn't ideal, and you don't have the time to improve that part of the code?

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#80

Post by TAForObvReasons »

hughes wrote: post #69
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side projects are for software what a portfolio is for other creative industries. You don't hire a designer sight unseen -- usually you ask for a sample. It makes perfect sense to expect the same of technology.

What if we consider software candidates like tradespeople? How do electricians and welders demonstrate their ability in an interview?

For electricians and welders, there are licenses / certification. Obtaining the license / certification demonstrates the baseline competency
Post reply on HN