Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

maxkle.in

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 122 posts

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#71

Post by lisper »

3pt14159 wrote: post #62
9oliYQjP wrote: post #3

China's great until you have to go to court there and realize you're being totally screwed over because your opponent has an "in" with the government. There are countries like Australia and Canada that strike a nice middle ground between too much and too little regulation, have decent, stable economies right now, and solid relationships with China in the case you want to partner with a company there. But I've heard t…

Canada is a clear win. Set up a corporation in a single day. Fairly straightforward taxes (not the lowest around, but still fairly simple). Technical cities (Waterloo, Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa). Zero corruption, unless you're in the construction industry, but effectively nothing. Easy employee termination (2 weeks pay without cause, 0 weeks pay with cause). Low occurrence of lawsuits, especially medical, and much s…

But the weather sucks.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#72

Post by barmstrong »

mattm wrote: post #68
richcollins wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in Hong Kong?

I lived in Suzhou - just outside Shanghai.

Do you think this could make a big difference? I've seen Hong Kong rank highly in economic freedoms whereas mainland China does not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom_histo...

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#73

Post by petercooper »

yardie wrote: post #26
ido wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are not U.S born, it's QUITE difficult to simply walk in and start a company in the U.S. And you'd spend a lot of time just solving those problems, and have a lot less time to setup your company. Not only that, you might have a hard time even getting to the US in the first place, as one of the requirements for even getting a visa is to show that you have "sufficient ties" to you current country of residence (e…

If you are trying to immigrate to the US on a non-immigrant visa then hell yes they will put you through the wringer. Do the proper paperwork and apply through the greencard lottery. There are plenty of empty spots for French and German greencard seekers. Since we share the same language the UK slots are perpetually full. Australians get a special immigration visa (R-1?) just for being awesome.

UK slots? The British aren't even eligible to apply for the green card lottery program (except, I believe, people from Northern Ireland.)

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#74

Post by ww520 »

zatara wrote: post #55

My experience with surfing tells me that you don't paddle towards where the wave has been, you wait and position yourself for the next one. The basic assumption is very sound, in a global world economy repositioning may be very interesting. I too agree that Europe is mostly dead for innovation and startups, but China is probably over-rated and too much bubble-prone at the moment (not to mention corruption, cultural s…

Isn't crime a big problem in Brazil? (BTW I have investment in Brazil and it has been doing great.)

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#75

Post by minsight »

lisper wrote: post #71
3pt14159 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is a clear win. Set up a corporation in a single day. Fairly straightforward taxes (not the lowest around, but still fairly simple). Technical cities (Waterloo, Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa). Zero corruption, unless you're in the construction industry, but effectively nothing. Easy employee termination (2 weeks pay without cause, 0 weeks pay with cause). Low occurrence of lawsuits, especially medical, and much s…

But the weather sucks.

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/caon0441

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#76

Post by chrischen »

Actually to maintain a western standard of living your costs will probably be more in china, since many western brand name products are imported (despite being made in china). For example an apartment in shanghai can cost more than one in NYC, iPhone costs more, etc.

Whatever you do, avoid street food.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#77

Post by mattm »

barmstrong wrote: post #72
mattm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Suzhou - just outside Shanghai.

Do you think this could make a big difference? I've seen Hong Kong rank highly in economic freedoms whereas mainland China does not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom_histo...

I also lived in HK a number of years ago for 5 months but I didn't have much exposure to the business environment. IMO, HK is definitely more by the book and easier for foreigners to do business there. These elements exist but much, much less than mainland China.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#78

Post by rdl »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #43
mattm wrote: post #32

I lived in China in 2008 and while I'm no expert on China, you will learn quite quickly that some of your perceptions about China are not true: - In china, you can pay a programmer 600€ a month Sure, for average programmers. For good ones, you are going to be paying the same as elsewhere. A friend of mine there told me her brother was earning nearly $500 US/day working as a programmer for a company and they even gave…

Their educational system focuses more on memorization. Creativity and problem solving are not taught very much. This is going to be a huge problem when hiring programmers right out of university. They will be looking to you to tell them everything they should be doing. Why do you believe this is different than in the US? While I've never hired programmers right out of university, most of the students I taught in univ…

I think far more US university students, especially the top 10%, are going to have worked on projects semi-independently or independently. Either "group projects" in software engineering, or maybe personal outside projects.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#79

Post by mattm »

chrischen wrote: post #76

Actually to maintain a western standard of living your costs will probably be more in china, since many western brand name products are imported (despite being made in china). For example an apartment in shanghai can cost more than one in NYC, iPhone costs more, etc. Whatever you do, avoid street food.

Agreed with the cost of living. No matter where you go in the world, if you want to live an American lifestyle - car, big house/apartment, western products - you will pay just about the same as living in the US. However, if you can live like a local, your cost of living will drop dramatically.

I never had a problem with street food.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#80

Post by rdl »

3pt14159 wrote: post #62
9oliYQjP wrote: post #3

China's great until you have to go to court there and realize you're being totally screwed over because your opponent has an "in" with the government. There are countries like Australia and Canada that strike a nice middle ground between too much and too little regulation, have decent, stable economies right now, and solid relationships with China in the case you want to partner with a company there. But I've heard t…

Canada is a clear win. Set up a corporation in a single day. Fairly straightforward taxes (not the lowest around, but still fairly simple). Technical cities (Waterloo, Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa). Zero corruption, unless you're in the construction industry, but effectively nothing. Easy employee termination (2 weeks pay without cause, 0 weeks pay with cause). Low occurrence of lawsuits, especially medical, and much s…

I assume he's actually trolling us.

Canada is a great choice. Singapore or Hong Kong would be ok. Various Eastern European countries, or Ireland, or Australia or New Zealand -- all great.

The only reason I would put a small business in China is a manufacturing business, or a services business focused ON CHINA. A services business focused outside China based in China is utterly insane. You have the language issue, the undeveloped legal system and business support system, the high cost of top-tier expats, and all sorts of political risk.

Post reply on HN