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Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far

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Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far

#71

Post by reuleaux »

thevardanian wrote: post #62
reuleaux wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not to mention why isn't there a push for more women working trade jobs like construction, plumbing, underwater wielding, etc. that in itself betrays the entire "gender equality" narrative." This same comment is made every single time there's a discussion of gender equality in tech, and when examined betrays the entire "anti gender equality" narrative. People are in fact pushing for women in every single one of the…

That wasn't even the point of my whole argument. All I'm saying is that perhaps women don't want those jobs in the first place. Then what will you do? I mean that is the whole assumption of this argument right? That women want these jobs, but are unable to participate in them because of discrimination. What if that assumption is wrong? You can push for diversity all you want, but what if that's just not how people be…

I understood your argument, it's just a bad argument. You presented no evidence to support your claim so I'm not sure what you want me to refute. Yes, perhaps the current employment representation perfectly reflects what jobs women want. And perhaps men just really like killing themselves. Resolving gender issues sure is easy when we just assume hypotheticals are true.

I think you are missing the point of the argument for encouraging diversity. Discrimination is one aspect yes, but there's a lot to be said for encouraging young women to explore these fields just by having a visible number of women in those roles.

To me it would be wildly inconceivable for predisposition to certain jobs to be an inherent biological trait rather than something shaped by society.

Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far

#72

Post by fakescience »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #9
cwackerfuss wrote: post #3

It's sad to see men regressing at the idea of diversity in tech. It can't just be a boys club. The value in employment diversity is that we give people of all backgrounds a fair shot at opportunities. IMO it's actually a very complex issue strategically leveling the playing field. At Google, something like only 1 in 5 tech workers are female, and their diversity practices are fairly extreme compared to the norm. It's…

No one is 'regressing' at the idea of diversity in tech. Framing it that way is a huge part of the problem and phenomenally disingenuous and simplistic. The divide is really whether you want force extra diversity at the expense of a meritocracy or if you want a meritocracy. With all the 'more women' vs. 'boys club' nonsense, a person not thinking critically could forget that some people want to work with the best peo…

It's not possible to be a "meritocracy" based simply on hiring "the best" without accounting for all the institutional problems when it comes to sexism and sex discrimination that give men the ability to more easily be "the best" than women.

Being able to "ignore" labels is a perfect example of the kind of privilege men have access to in our society. And the fact that these comments from from a username that is reference to a penis / sexual act is just another layer to tech's issues creating a tolerant space for meritocracy to thrive.

Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far

#73

Post by deepnotderp »

KirinDave wrote: post #69
deepnotderp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where do men get state funded birth control?

The historically popular national insurance subsidization program that is part of the ACA. But also vasectomies are an unremarkable part of what many government subsidized clinics.

What birth control? Examples?

Again, tubal ligation isn't really frowned upon and it is also subsidized. And the ACA requires health insurance...

Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far

#74

Post by rektide »

grondilu wrote: post #24

Today on HN I've learnt about KaTeX, a math typesetting system for the web[1]. As I looked into it, I was intrigued by the names of the two authors, which suggested they are females. That looked odd to me, as I thought typically this kind of project is made by men. The last time I had this kind of surprise was with Audrey Tang, the developer of Pugs, an early Perl 6 implementation. Turned out she was not born female.…

You are a grade A asshole. You ignore all the potential for discrimination in selection, & promote this vicious nasty bitter competitive view reinforcing stereotypes you want to believe in. This is disgusting and disgraceful, and you are the scourge that keeps the score so uneven. Shame shame shame on disgusting you.

Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far

#75

Post by oceanghost »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #9
cwackerfuss wrote: post #3

It's sad to see men regressing at the idea of diversity in tech. It can't just be a boys club. The value in employment diversity is that we give people of all backgrounds a fair shot at opportunities. IMO it's actually a very complex issue strategically leveling the playing field. At Google, something like only 1 in 5 tech workers are female, and their diversity practices are fairly extreme compared to the norm. It's…

No one is 'regressing' at the idea of diversity in tech. Framing it that way is a huge part of the problem and phenomenally disingenuous and simplistic. The divide is really whether you want force extra diversity at the expense of a meritocracy or if you want a meritocracy. With all the 'more women' vs. 'boys club' nonsense, a person not thinking critically could forget that some people want to work with the best peo…

There's an important issue here that's been overlooked. A few sociopath VP's act like sociopaths-- exactly what you hired them to do-- and all men are labeled as sexist, rapists, etc.

The assumption itself is highly discriminatory and completely contradicts the stated goal.

Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far

#76

Post by tnzn »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #40
grondilu wrote: post #24

Today on HN I've learnt about KaTeX, a math typesetting system for the web[1]. As I looked into it, I was intrigued by the names of the two authors, which suggested they are females. That looked odd to me, as I thought typically this kind of project is made by men. The last time I had this kind of surprise was with Audrey Tang, the developer of Pugs, an early Perl 6 implementation. Turned out she was not born female.…

It might help if it were not frowned upon to admit that women and men are different, and that isn't a bad thing. Male nurses are still a rarity, and that's ok (though, all nurses, regardless of sex, should get paid more). Different doesn't mean better or worse, just different. Is a frog better than a toad? Well, what situation are you asking about? Are women better than men? Well, what situation are we talking about?…

It would help to stop with the strawmen. Feminists don't say men and women are not different at all, they say that the gender roles are based on cultural factors more than biological ones.

Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far

#77

Post by thevardanian »

greglindahl wrote: post #70
thevardanian wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't even the point of my whole argument. All I'm saying is that perhaps women don't want those jobs in the first place. Then what will you do? I mean that is the whole assumption of this argument right? That women want these jobs, but are unable to participate in them because of discrimination. What if that assumption is wrong? You can push for diversity all you want, but what if that's just not how people be…

No, that was never an assumption of the argument.

That clearly is the assumption of the argument. That women don't have enough opportunities and thus are underrepresented in the work force. Whether that opportunity refers to discrimination, encouragement, etc. is irrelevant to what I'm saying. What if women are underrepresented because they simply don't want the jobs?

Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far

#78

Post by thevardanian »

reuleaux wrote: post #71
thevardanian wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't even the point of my whole argument. All I'm saying is that perhaps women don't want those jobs in the first place. Then what will you do? I mean that is the whole assumption of this argument right? That women want these jobs, but are unable to participate in them because of discrimination. What if that assumption is wrong? You can push for diversity all you want, but what if that's just not how people be…

I understood your argument, it's just a bad argument. You presented no evidence to support your claim so I'm not sure what you want me to refute. Yes, perhaps the current employment representation perfectly reflects what jobs women want. And perhaps men just really like killing themselves. Resolving gender issues sure is easy when we just assume hypotheticals are true. I think you are missing the point of the argumen…

"To me it would be wildly inconceivable for predisposition to certain jobs to be an inherent biological trait rather than something shaped by society."

Doesn't really matter what would inconceivable to you. What matters if that's the reality of the situation. Watch the documentary it addresses it.

Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far

#79

Post by BenoitP »

grondilu wrote: post #24

Today on HN I've learnt about KaTeX, a math typesetting system for the web[1]. As I looked into it, I was intrigued by the names of the two authors, which suggested they are females. That looked odd to me, as I thought typically this kind of project is made by men. The last time I had this kind of surprise was with Audrey Tang, the developer of Pugs, an early Perl 6 implementation. Turned out she was not born female.…

Sophie Wilson[1], designer of the ARM instruction set -among other things- comes to mind too.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Wilson

Re: Push for Gender Equality in Tech? Some Men Say It’s Gone Too Far

#80

Post by greglindahl »

thevardanian wrote: post #77
greglindahl wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that was never an assumption of the argument.

That clearly is the assumption of the argument. That women don't have enough opportunities and thus are underrepresented in the work force. Whether that opportunity refers to discrimination, encouragement, etc. is irrelevant to what I'm saying. What if women are underrepresented because they simply don't want the jobs?

In a society where women are not treated equally, you're dodging the real issue to argue about something that's not relevant.
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