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Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website

#71

Post by shakna »

belovedeagle wrote: post #63
KZeillmann wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you request the records of 1.3 million people in an effort to find the identities of about 200, that feels ridiculously broad. I'm not sure what they're hoping to find, but it seems like security camera footage would be much more useful than this action, which seems to look more like cracking down on political dissent.

But when you request the records of 1.3 million conspirators to riot and commit other terrorist acts, in order to find the 200 who actually did, that's quite reasonable. The stated goal of the website was terrorism (shutting down bridges, checkpoints, etc.). Every single account is quite likely to be evidence of conspiracy.

That seems the perfect use-case for pre-trial injunction so that assets (data) can be seized, under RICO.

As they haven't touched RICO, it seems likely they cannot consider all 1.3 million people to be conspirators, nor even a large number to be conspirators.

Re: Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website

#72

Post by davidw »

enraged_camel wrote: post #57
jdavis703 wrote: post #38

I'm not really surprised at this. I was in DC for the inauguration at an officially permitted protest. Afterwards I'm heading back on the Metro with a small sign saying "illegitimate president." When I get to the platform level there are several armed people in camoflauge, I'm assuming military, but I'm not 100% positive. I'm told by one of them that I need to leave the station immediately. I responded "is this a jok…

Stuff like this is why we need to have more political discussions on HN. If we don't talk about these issues openly and try to come up with solutions, we will look back and wonder how we managed to spend this era of USA's transition to fascism discussing utterly trivial stuff like the latest JavaScript frameworks. To paraphrase the famous saying, evil succeeds when good men and women do nothing. I have seen this happ…

> If we don't talk about these issues openly and try to come up with solutions,

You can check out my twitter feed if you think I don't care about politics, but there are a ton of places where we can 'talk about these issues openly'. Just maybe spare this one site from all the politics? It tends to, uh, eclipse, everything else, as it is far more important.

Re: Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website

#73

Post by jbergstroem »

enraged_camel wrote: post #57
jdavis703 wrote: post #38

I'm not really surprised at this. I was in DC for the inauguration at an officially permitted protest. Afterwards I'm heading back on the Metro with a small sign saying "illegitimate president." When I get to the platform level there are several armed people in camoflauge, I'm assuming military, but I'm not 100% positive. I'm told by one of them that I need to leave the station immediately. I responded "is this a jok…

Stuff like this is why we need to have more political discussions on HN. If we don't talk about these issues openly and try to come up with solutions, we will look back and wonder how we managed to spend this era of USA's transition to fascism discussing utterly trivial stuff like the latest JavaScript frameworks. To paraphrase the famous saying, evil succeeds when good men and women do nothing. I have seen this happ…

The same reason the Go 1.9 changelog won't be discussed in political forums, opinions on USA's political landscape surely has a better home on the Internet than here.

Re: Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website

#74

Post by trgv »

I wonder if this isn't part of the games that prosecutors play. It seems like prosecutors might request the largest amount of data possible, knowing that someone will object and they'll get only a fraction of that.

In general the logic in the article doesn't follow. It says 200 people have been charged, so why not request information relating only to those 200 people? Regardless, internet messages can't prove participation in a violent riot, so I would assume the prosecutors have other, harder, evidence. if not they're just wasting everyone's time.

Re: Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website

#75

Post by dsfyu404ed »

Buried in the article is a key detail.

>Prosecutors earlier this week scaled back their request and changed it to seek emails associated with Disruptj20.org and email addresses of third parties associated with the website, such as individuals who volunteered to help provide supplies or support to rioters.

>As part of his ruling, Morin ordered prosecutors to tell him who was going to review the data DreamHost provides and, once that information is found, explain to him why prosecutors deem the information “critical” to their case.

>Under Morin’s ruling, any information prosecutors find unrelated to the rioting would be sealed and could not be shared by prosecutors with anyone else or any other government authority.

Re: Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website

#76

Post by to_bpr »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #65
dingo_bat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that it has been under attack for a long time now, and acting as if some new threat is active is disingenuous and partisan.

I don't think people are acting as if it's a new threat, but rather alarmed that it's reached the levels it has. That is new , even if it has been ramping up a long time.

What stands out to me personally about this is that I'm 99% sure the administration could have silently achieved the same results through a FISA ordered warrant, but chose to go public in what I'm perceiving to be sending a message.

The Obama administration also sent messages but they seem to have been ignored willingly or not. Remember when the intelligence services entered the offices of the free press in the U.K. and forced the destruction of computer equipment?

The warning signs have been here for years. If the loud mouthed Trump is what triggers a movement to change things then so be it.

Re: Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website

#77

Post by ArchReaper »

khazhoux wrote: post #67
ArchReaper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this is an opportunity for you to learn and not just me wasting my time addressing a troll. >what alternative is there to find out who they are? That's not the question you should be asking. The question you should be asking yourself is "why am I OK with violating the 4th amendment rights of millions of citizens"

That was very patronizing. Everyone's time is valuable, and personally I choose to believe that Hacker News is NOT a troll destination, but made up of smart people with (on occasion) diverse opinions. More to the point: the question he SHOULD he asking is "Does the government actually have a legitimate and constitutionally-sound need for this information?" If "yes", then his question follows ("What alternatives exist…

You're right, I was quick to judge and patronize the previous comment, which isn't helpful. My b.

I think what irked me, specifically, is the way the question was phrased, as though guilt was the default assumption, which is absurd to me.

I interpreted "What alternatives exist for getting this info?" as "What other way would big brother be able to violate your rights, except through this?" which I now realize is not what he was trying to say.

Has there been any evidence linking the users of this site directly to this riot? My core issue is that this seems to me to be a case of attacking political opponents through the legal system.

What evidence do they have that there is relevant information in those records directly tied to someone who committed a crime? I fail to see anything in this article that actually mentions a valid reason for this search.

Their original request covered over a million users. How could that possibly be reasonable?

Re: Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website

#78

Post by twoquestions »

tptacek wrote: post #41
twoquestions wrote: post #11

How did this travesty pass 4th Amendment muster? "Yes Mr. Bar Owner, a few of your patrons stole a car a few weeks back. We'll need the names and addresses of all the people who visited this place for the last year please."

Wait, don't the police get similar information dumps from similar fact patterns kind of routinely? I know they can't properly use dragnet searches as a starting point for an investigation, but if they have a reasonably specific criminal inquiry they're pursuing, can't they get their hands on a lot of stuff? I'm not sure the fact pattern you're providing really illustrates the concern. Rather, I think the concern is t…

> Wait, don't the police get similar information dumps from similar fact patterns kind of routinely?

It does, and that's bad. Hopefully more people start realizing this.

> The concern is that the "investigation" is a pretense for intimidation.

Absolutely, and that's the toxic cherry on this poisoned cake.

Re: Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website

#79

Post by jdavis703 »

jbergstroem wrote: post #73
enraged_camel wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like this is why we need to have more political discussions on HN. If we don't talk about these issues openly and try to come up with solutions, we will look back and wonder how we managed to spend this era of USA's transition to fascism discussing utterly trivial stuff like the latest JavaScript frameworks. To paraphrase the famous saying, evil succeeds when good men and women do nothing. I have seen this happ…

The same reason the Go 1.9 changelog won't be discussed in political forums, opinions on USA's political landscape surely has a better home on the Internet than here.

Most sites are either echo chambers or fighting cages. The civility of Hacker News makes it a great place for not having shouting matches. Perhaps you know of other political sites with a HN-like community?

Re: Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website

#80

Post by charonn0 »

jrowley wrote: post #45
CalChris wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pretend all you want about something that didn't happen. That is a counterfactual: a conditional statement the first clause of which expresses something contrary to fact, as “If I had known.”. There have been no judicial orders requiring the Daily Stormer to turn over any records relating to Charlottesville. Instead, quite the apposite , various private companies have decided that having anything to do with t…

Wouldn't it be amazing if the providers released the IP addresses of the the Daily Stormer users, just because they can. That would be interesting, and totally within their power.

And also illegal to varying extents in a number of jurisdictions.
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