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Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

news.nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#71

Post by hutzlibu »

quotha wrote: post #53
adekok wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mars is effectively a vacuum (for people purposes) anyways, just like the moon. And both are bone-dry, which means lots of static charges when you go outside. The main difference is that Mars has sufficient weather that the dust is roundish, whereas the moon dust is composed of extremely sharp shards. IMHO, if we can't make a go of it on the moon, we have no business going to Mars.

You know there is water on both right?

just like there is water in the most arid deserts on earth ... and still they are a jungle compared to moon and mars. So I think, boone-dry is a quite correct description ...

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#72

Post by WalterBright »

drostie wrote: post #42
jgh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Moreover, only half of the Moon sees the light of the Sun. I'm no astronomer but the moon is tidally locked to the earth and not the sun, which means that the moon should have sunrises/sunsets...

Yeah, it does. The real concern is that the moon-day is a full month long and there is no atmosphere transferring heat; any permanent structures on the surface will get very very cold during those two weeks in the dark. If we don't solve this with suitable solar-charged batteries we would need multiple outposts -- say 4 of them dotted around the Moon -- with colonists rotating through the cities to stay in the Sun. B…

Put a couple large mirrors in orbit around the moon.

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#75

Post by keenerd »

Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #69
QAPereo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inasmuch as Mars with our current technology offers no back up for civilization, the same can certainly be said for the moon. I would argue over that the moon actually has some benefits Mars lacks, in addition to proximity it has a much lesser gravitational field and therefore a much lower delta V. Moon colony could realistically jumpstart space and vacuum industries beyond LEO, and frankly it would probably give us…

Mars has atmosphere for aerobraking and ISRU possibilities that the moon does not. In many ways, it is much more practical from a spaceflight standpoint. That's not to say that there aren't possibilities for both, but Mars is seen as the preferred choice for a variety of sound reasons.

The Martian atmosphere is next to worthless for aerobraking human-scale infrastructure.

One of the most significant points in the Moon's favor is the (relative) ease with which a space elevator could be built. It doesn't need unobtainium, current structural materials are strong enough.

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#76

Post by nolok »

0xfeba wrote: post #64
nolok wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course in that time you had no tab indicator to nicely tell you who was playing sound. Nothing quite like those search that took you on sketchy websites and their porn pop under blasting orgasmic noises in your home / office while you frantically try to find who does that (and then close everything because it's taking too long). "The good old time", as they say.

Sound indicators ... that time? Like a year ago?

I understand your jest, but for reference by "that time" I referred to back when pop under were still a thing.

Searching for which tab makes sound is one thing, searching for it and not finding it anywhere because it's a pop under positioned at the bottom right of your screen is a whole other experience.

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#77

Post by pc86 »

WalterBright wrote: post #70
QAPereo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inasmuch as Mars with our current technology offers no back up for civilization, the same can certainly be said for the moon. I would argue over that the moon actually has some benefits Mars lacks, in addition to proximity it has a much lesser gravitational field and therefore a much lower delta V. Moon colony could realistically jumpstart space and vacuum industries beyond LEO, and frankly it would probably give us…

You can also rotate the crew on the moon. Can send things to the moon you didn't anticipate. Can send replacement/repair parts. Can't do that for Mars.

Of course you can, it just takes a few orders of magnitude longer.

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#78

Post by hnlmorg »

woranl wrote: post #66
tambourine_man wrote: post #7

I've always been more excited about a Moon colony than a Mars one. I mean, compared to Mars, the Moon is ridiculously close. Many of the same benefits Musk seeks (backup for Civilization, excitement) for a fraction of the cost. Low gravity and atmosphere on a dome would be more complicated, but again, compared to Mars, it's right there . It would be a more humble and realistic first step, IMO.

I rather have Civilization backup in Mars. If the Earth goes, the Moon wouldn't be in a very good shape. Just like I wouldn't go hide in the kitchen, while the living room is burning down.

This is one of the biggest points people miss when talking about civilization back ups. I tend to think of it in IT terms: the moon is like an offline but onsite backup. It will protect you from most internal cockups where as Mars is more like an offsite backup which will protect you should your building (Earth) get taken out

Re: Water Found Deep Inside the Moon

#79

Post by hutzlibu »

andars wrote: post #36
munificent wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People way underestimate how far away Mars is. To give you a sense of scale, the settlers of Jamestown came from London. As the crow flies, that's about 3,790 miles. If we treat that as equivalent to settling on Mars, then for them to settle on "the moon" would have been a mere 26 miles from London. Perhaps Canvey Island on the River Thames. If we can't manage settlements that close, we really aren't ready yet for th…

In terms of distance, sure. In terms of delta-v, the budget for the moon is upwards of 50% that for Mars. EDIT: The 50% figure is from memory, and upon further reflection is probably not quite right, so take it with a grain of salt. I just wanted to point out that distance is not the only relevant metric.

BUT ... getting from the moon back to earth is very easy and fast. From the mars not so much.
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