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Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

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Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#71
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you recommend some alternatives?

Run Squeezelite on multiple Raspberry Pis paired with decent USB audio adapters (Berhinger UCA222 - decent analog and also optical out). Music served from a PC using the standard Logitech Media Server software, playback controlled with either the standard web interface or the Squeezer android app. Plug the RPis into decent stereos (not a powered speaker unless you are some kind of rabid animal) and you've got a good…

Does Logitech Media Server integrate with all these doodads: http://www.sonos.com/en-us/streaming-music ?

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#73
post #62

And reason #458 why I am skipping the whole "IoT revolution" in my home. I consider this motivation for DIY.

There are a good amount of IoT devices that work offline and don't use public internet at all.

I specifically buy devices that aren't bound to the Internet and I've found a good amount.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#74
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You read that and think they're going to tunnel into your network and break your speakers? To me this is clearly lawyer CYA language to ensure that when Spotify changes their API and Sonos only supports it in a future software update, you will have been warned.

I read that and I think they're totally free to . And they might. Which would be more frustrating to a user - their Sonos turning into regular speakers, or arbitrarily and randomly not functioning as expected? Imagine the difference between your phone suddenly bricking itself, or random refusing to dial certain numbers.

Free to in what sense?

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Run Squeezelite on multiple Raspberry Pis paired with decent USB audio adapters (Berhinger UCA222 - decent analog and also optical out). Music served from a PC using the standard Logitech Media Server software, playback controlled with either the standard web interface or the Squeezer android app. Plug the RPis into decent stereos (not a powered speaker unless you are some kind of rabid animal) and you've got a good…

Does Logitech Media Server integrate with all these doodads: http://www.sonos.com/en-us/streaming-music ?

A few of them look familiar, but I don't use that stuff. My advice was given with someone with a digital music collection in mind. Spotify, for example, was available on the Squeezebox Touch (and not the earlier Squeezebox Classic) but I don't know how tricky it would be to make it work with Squeezelite.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#76
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individuals haven't owned much in a very long time; we've been physical serfs living on someone else's land for even longer. You only "own" something so long as you pay taxes (aka rents) for the right to do so, otherwise someone, usually the government, will take it from you. Even if you don't want to play along, you can only be somewhere public for so long until you're loitering and subject to fines (more rents), co…

I highly recommend "Seeing like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition have Failed" reviewing the rise of top-down city planning especially in recent modern cities like Brasilia (which systematically removed public space & spontaneous street interactions by design ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras%C3%ADlia

> Compulsory ujamaa villages in Tanzania, collectivization in Russia, Le Corbusier’s urban planning theory realized in Brasilia, the Great Leap Forward in China, agricultural "modernization" in the Tropics―the twentieth century has been racked by grand utopian schemes that have inadvertently brought death and disruption to millions. Why do well-intentioned plans for improving the human condition go tragically awry?

Thanks, it sounds like something I'd love; ordering a copy!

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#77
post #67

As a Sonos (I have close to $2000 worth of products) user this actually doesn't bother me. To all the people talking about ownership. I find it hard to believe the aux in will cease to work. So worst case is they turn into regular speakers. What it sounds like is you won't be able to update your firmware. So more likely than not, everything would keep working but random Internet related services (like Spotify Integra…

> I find it hard to believe .... until it does happen as they promised ... > sound systems that may eventually "cease to function". Not just some part of it but all of it.

I find it hard to believe for technical reasons. From what I can tell in the Network traffic the speaker actually talks directly to Spotify for instance.

They would need to have a remote kill switch and use it.

Secondly, they have done this before (forced agreeing to the terms to do a software update) and every time they have warned "some functionality might cease to work" and every time I kept using it past the cutoff.

Once, I had Spotify stop working on me. I assume because they switched API keys or something.

In fact, for example, they had an update that killed Audible integration. And my Audible integration kept working until I installed the update.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#78

As a Sonos (I have close to $2000 worth of products) user this actually doesn't bother me. To all the people talking about ownership. I find it hard to believe the aux in will cease to work. So worst case is they turn into regular speakers. What it sounds like is you won't be able to update your firmware. So more likely than not, everything would keep working but random Internet related services (like Spotify Integra…

> So worst case is they turn into regular speakers. If I wanted regular speakers, I would have bought regular speakers.

My point being the speakers are the only part of it that are a product. Everything else is clearly a service.

The part of the speaker that is actually a product is unlikely to stop working.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#79
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that and I think they're totally free to . And they might. Which would be more frustrating to a user - their Sonos turning into regular speakers, or arbitrarily and randomly not functioning as expected? Imagine the difference between your phone suddenly bricking itself, or random refusing to dial certain numbers.

Free to in what sense?

Free in the sense that they can stop supporting any streaming services on your Sonos device.

Re: Sonos: users must accept new privacy policy or devices may “cease to function”

#80

It seems like nobody actually owns anything any more - that we're all just digital serfs living on someone else's land. I really don't know why anyone would willingly make such a deal.

Another view:

Too many hardware products are being tethered to opaque "updates" delivered via untrusted computer network, namely, "the Internet". Security issues of the delivery mechanism aside, purchasers of these products are given no options on whether and how they may choose to "update" the manufacturer's software, or replace the manufacturer's software with an open source alternative.

For example, if the manufacturer's software is closed source, the purchaser cannot verify what is in an "update". The manufacturer is under no legal obligation to tell her. As such, she may not be in a position to decide

   [ ] YES, I could use this modification or 
   [ ] NO, this modification serves me no benefit
The modification may serve some benefit to the manufacture, e.g., collecting data, but no benefit to the purchaser.

It may be bundled with some other modification that benefits the purchaser but the purchaser cannot choose to accept or reject the modifications individually.

Or the manufacturer may simply state a possibility that breeds fear among certain purchasers: that if purchaser does not accept all updates, then the hardware may "cease to function". Consideration by the purchaser of whether this is actually probable may be superseded by a perceived risk of not being able to use the hardware to its full capabilities.

(For example, a router company may inform the purchaser that only the router company's software will allow certain performance specificatons to be met. If the purchaser installs an open source alternative software, then she will not be able to obtain the same performance. Of course there may be other benefits to the open source alternative besides performance, but the perceived "loss" of not reaching the performance specs advertised by the manufacturer is enough to convince many purchasers to tether the router to the manufacturer's "updates".)

Purchasers own the hardware they purchase. It is the software, including "firmware", pre-installed by manufacturers that gives rise to these shenanigans. The less access and control, including choice of alternatives, that the purchaser has to such software, the better for the manufacturer who wishes to continue to exploit the sale of the hardware well-beyond the purchase date.

When the purchaser of hardware is forced to accept the manufacturer's software, then I tend to agree with the comment. Regardless of whether the purchaser owns the hardware, if the manufacture controls the software, e.g. the manufacturer can "update" it at will or break it at will for anyone who does not "update", then with all due respect I submit that the manufacture ultimately controls the hardware. Thought experiment: Apply the above view to every item of hardware you have ever purchased. Consider whether it will apply to the next item you purchase.

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